How Long Until 'Sic et Non' is Cancelled?

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Doctor Scratch
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How Long Until 'Sic et Non' is Cancelled?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

One of Dr. Peterson's favorite quotes to recycle is one from our very own Mr. Bond, who some years back predicted that "Mormon Interpreter" would eventually be little more than a blog. (Question: when was it ever anything *more* than that?) Lately, though, I'm beginning to wonder whether or not the most prolific of all Mopologetic enterprises--"Sic et Non"--might be going through its final death throes. Blogging started out as a means for the Mopologists to exercise greater control over their "message"--a way to continue their work without having to deal with the "hassles" (I.e., interference from critics) that went hand-and-hand with message board posting. Thus: Sic et Non, Enigmatic Mirror, and blogs by Schryver, John Gee, and others. Most of those fell by the wayside or dwindled away into irrelevance, but "Sic et Non" persists. Well, sort of.

I don't know if you caught it yet, but this is the most recent entry. In case you don't feel like clicking on the link: Dr. Peterson is reposting a "review" from Jim Bennett of the *very first* episode of Under the Banner of Heaven. Dr. Peterson remarks that he's "not sure whether I’ve done already done so or not." (Hint: you have.)

Let's face it: "SeN" was never very good, but whatever "quality" it ever had has been in steep decline. There has been lots of repetition--including passages of alleged plagiarism--and the recent "travelogue" through Europe, which consisted of the most banal observations imaginable, coupled with material that seemed to have been lifted out of Wikipedia, plus a bizarre fixation on Nazism, was pretty terrible. And now he doesn't even seem to remember whether he's recycling material or not.

I can see several possibilities here:

1. Dr. Peterson's time as Chief Mopologist is coming to an end. He doesn't have his same old sharpness, and so "SeN" is going down the tubes simply because he doesn't have the same energy that he used to have. Whatever reserves he's got left are going to need to be saved for the sequel to "Witnesses." (Sorry, FAIR Conference: you're going to get off-the-cuff crap again this year.)

2. Repeats, reposts, and lazy writing will continue on a daily basis at "SeN", because the powers-that-be at Patheos aren't paying attention, and there is enough of an audience/readership/"click volume" that they see no need to look more deeply into the issue.

3. Patheos steps in and pulls the plug because they are not getting their money's worth. I see this as a very real possibility. On the one hand, it's not hard to imagine DCP thinking to himself, "Hey, I've put years and years of service into defending the Church. I *deserve* to get something back in return!" And that's how, in his own mind, he justifies "bilking" this Church-owned blogging platform with his bottom-of-the-barrel posting. I mean, if you can get some spending money back from the Church by cutting-and-pasting material from Wikipedia, then why not? It doesn't seem quite as unscrupulous as trying to get Rodney Meldrum and Jonathan Neville excommunicated, I guess.

In any case: I am curious what others think. At what point does the plug get pulled on this, if ever? What would be the last straw?
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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Re: How Long Until 'Sic et Non' is Cancelled?

Post by drumdude »

I don't think anyone but Dan cares enough about SeN to cancel him. Since it's basically his personal MySpace/Facebook page, it'll stay up until he dies.
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Re: How Long Until 'Sic et Non' is Cancelled?

Post by Binger »

drumdude wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:15 pm
I don't think anyone but Dan cares enough about SeN to cancel him. Since it's basically his personal MySpace/Facebook page, it'll stay up until he dies.
Correct.
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Re: How Long Until 'Sic et Non' is Cancelled?

Post by Marcus »

drumdude wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:15 pm
I don't think anyone but Dan cares enough about SeN to cancel him. Since it's basically his personal MySpace/Facebook page, it'll stay up until he dies.
What has always surprised me is the plagiarized pieces he leaves up. Many came down when they were documented here, but many, many more remain on the Patheos site. These plagiarized pieces were posted multiple times on Patheos, and are still up. One would think the site would not want the liability.

There are also a number of pieces DCP defines as his own, when the original, or the bulk of the original, was clearly attributed to Hamblin and himself, in Deseret News. That bothers me quite a bit. In addition to the Deseret News policy about republishing work without proper attribution, it seems particularly unChristlike to simply post joint work and take full credit for it, when your writing partner has passed away. I thought I read that Hamblin’s wife retained those rights, but DCP clearly could care less. He plagiarizes from anyone and everyone.
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Doctor Scratch
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Re: How Long Until 'Sic et Non' is Cancelled?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Marcus wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:21 am

What has always surprised me is the plagiarized pieces he leaves up. Many came down when they were documented here, but many, many more remain on the Patheos site. These plagiarized pieces were posted multiple times on Patheos, and are still up. One would think the site would not want the liability.
He claims that he’s making “notes,” but there are all kinds of problems with that. If Patheos is genuinely a Church-owned platform, then how does he justify posting in this way? Isn’t this sort of like claiming that you’ve paid a full tithe when, in actuality, you’ve only paid a fraction of it?
There are also a number of pieces DCP defines as his own, when the original, or the bulk of the original, was clearly attributed to Hamblin and himself, in Deseret News. That bothers me quite a bit. In addition to the Deseret News policy about republishing work without proper attribution, it seems particularly unChristlike to simply post joint work and take full credit for it, when your writing partner has passed away. I thought I read that Hamblin’s wife retained those rights, but DCP clearly could care less.
Wow. If that’s true, it’s incredibly disturbing. Then again, if things like “Mormon Scholars Testify” prove anything, it’s that the Mopologists are more than happy to use other people for their own ends—scruples be damned.
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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Re: How Long Until 'Sic et Non' is Cancelled?

Post by Moksha »

drumdude wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:15 pm
I don't think anyone but Dan cares enough about SeN to cancel him. Since it's basically his personal MySpace/Facebook page, it'll stay up until he dies.
I think this is a good point. Patheos can always add more LDS blogs if the clicks get too low at SeN. It's like the Veterans Administration Hospitals taking care of our aged warriors. It's not like the Church is robbing upcoming warriors by maintaining those who drew the blood of past critics.
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Re: How Long Until 'Sic et Non' is Cancelled?

Post by dastardly stem »

We may need to ask, if we had all put Dan on ignore 10 years ago, about the time the Church tried to take him down a few notches, would his blog or Interpreter enterprise still exist? How many clicks and shares do critics give him? And, without objection would his postings along with is friends' posting in Interpreter, have any consideration or relevance outside his handful of cheery sycophants?

I believe I recall asking him on his blog's comments section whether he realized how much life, how much relevance, his critics give him. He offered his usual dismissals and threats to send me packing, I believe. But it's worth considering, I think.

I honestly haven't paid attention to his blog for a year or so, so I'm not sure if its a dying breed.
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Re: How Long Until 'Sic et Non' is Cancelled?

Post by Binger »

dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:28 pm
We may need to ask, if we had all put Dan on ignore 10 years ago, about the time the Church tried to take him down a few notches, would his blog or Interpreter enterprise still exist? How many clicks and shares do critics give him? And, without objection would his postings along with is friends' posting in Interpreter, have any consideration or relevance outside his handful of cheery sycophants?

I believe I recall asking him on his blog's comments section whether he realized how much life, how much relevance, his critics give him. He offered his usual dismissals and threats to send me packing, I believe. But it's worth considering, I think.

I honestly haven't paid attention to his blog for a year or so, so I'm not sure if its a dying breed.
Dan is less relevant to the Church than he is to discussmormonism.com. There may have been a time when that was not the case, but it certainly is the case now.

Some of Dan's irrelevance can be associated/blamed to the demise of blogs and rise of the triggering social media dialogue. I would say though, that his irrelevance is more associated with the publication of Rough Stone Rolling, the so-called essays that were released, Reddit overwhelming the crappy RFM site that was hard to navigate, and the Broadway version of The Book of Mormon.

It was as clear to the Church as it is to everyone on this forum - Dan and his silly yammerings about Egyptian things are nothing more than his hobby, neither good nor bad and absolutely not relevant.
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Re: How Long Until 'Sic et Non' is Cancelled?

Post by Dr Exiled »

dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:28 pm
We may need to ask, if we had all put Dan on ignore 10 years ago, about the time the Church tried to take him down a few notches, would his blog or Interpreter enterprise still exist? How many clicks and shares do critics give him? And, without objection would his postings along with is friends' posting in Interpreter, have any consideration or relevance outside his handful of cheery sycophants?

I believe I recall asking him on his blog's comments section whether he realized how much life, how much relevance, his critics give him. He offered his usual dismissals and threats to send me packing, I believe. But it's worth considering, I think.

I honestly haven't paid attention to his blog for a year or so, so I'm not sure if its a dying breed.
I think if we ignored DCP for a while, he would come here picking fights under his name or an avatar. He needs a "devil" to function just like the Christian apologists needed Hitchins to bring in the crowds for the debates they had. He definitely benefits from the attention here. However, broadly speaking, he is more and more irrelevant as time goes on. I don't know how many read interpreter and his film and documentary were and are flops. Also, there is no legacy of junior apologists following in DCP's footsteps other than a couple of people like Smoot. Apologetics is going away from the DCP like heated debates and hit pieces to the more Givens like wishy washy type of method.

Given this, I think he won't be cancelled but will continue to fade away.
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Re: How Long Until 'Sic et Non' is Cancelled?

Post by drumdude »

Dr Exiled wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:24 pm
I think if we ignored DCP for a while, he would come here picking fights under his name or an avatar.
I highly doubt that. He's been hiding behind his blog since what, 2008?
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