Dan Peterson and Hugh Nibley - Church History

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huckelberry
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Re: Dan Peterson and Hugh Nibley - Church History

Post by huckelberry »

Well I went back and read the linked Nibley article and found it vague with what if type suggestions.

I checked a couple of footnotes. One in particular horrified me. 1Corinthians 13;8 Nibley reads this as saying after the charismatic gifts only human virtues continue. I am starting to have a vagure recollection that Nibley significantly contributed to my rejection of LDS claims.


Hi Ms Jack it is always good to hear your contributions. Your study can be valuable contribution. Your person thought is a valuable contribution.
drumdude
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Re: Dan Peterson and Hugh Nibley - Church History

Post by drumdude »

huckelberry wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:27 am
I checked a couple of footnotes. One in particular horrified me. 1Corinthians 13;8 Nibley reads this as saying after the charismatic gifts only human virtues continue. I am starting to have a vagure recollection that Nibley significantly contributed to my rejection of LDS claims.
I'm interested to know what you mean here. It seems Paul is saying exactly that, all those charismatic gifts are temporary and what endures is faith hope and love.
If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[ b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
huckelberry
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Re: Dan Peterson and Hugh Nibley - Church History

Post by huckelberry »

drumdude wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:51 am
huckelberry wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:27 am
I checked a couple of footnotes. One in particular horrified me. 1Corinthians 13;8 Nibley reads this as saying after the charismatic gifts only human virtues continue. I am starting to have a vagure recollection that Nibley significantly contributed to my rejection of LDS claims.
I'm interested to know what you mean here. It seems Paul is saying exactly that, all those charismatic gifts are temporary and what endures is faith hope and love.
If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[ b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Drumdude
I think it is quite clear that this is not a prediction of apostasy but is distinguishing what is of eternal value from what might have temporary use.

In the article Nibley presents this as a foreshadowing of apostasy. I suppose with enough desire for seeing apostasy such a shadow might be seen in those words but I think it is quite a strain.

In some places Paul expresses some concern about people becoming proud of spiritual gifts. He wants to put them in perspective.
drumdude
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Re: Dan Peterson and Hugh Nibley - Church History

Post by drumdude »

huckelberry wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:17 pm
drumdude wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:51 am


I'm interested to know what you mean here. It seems Paul is saying exactly that, all those charismatic gifts are temporary and what endures is faith hope and love.

Drumdude
I think it is quite clear that this is not a prediction of apostasy but is distinguishing what is of eternal value from what might have temporary use.

In the article Nibley presents this as a foreshadowing of apostasy. I suppose with enough desire for seeing apostasy such a shadow might be seen in those words but I think it is quite a strain.

In some places Paul expresses some concern about people becoming proud of spiritual gifts. He wants to put them in perspective.
Got it makes sense now.
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