Re: Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:47 am
I am not MG.
Internet Mormons, Chapel Mormons, Critics, Apologists, and Never-Mo's all welcome!
https://discussmormonism.com/
I am not MG.
Not for lack of trying! Humanity needs someone who can preserve some good things forever; I call such a someone God; without God humanity will go extinct. So if God does not exist, people are conscientiously obligated to produce Her/Him. What's so hard to understand about that? What is contradictory about that?
it's not a matter of being contradictory or difficult to understand, it's simply that you haven't provided any reasoning for your assumptions.KevinSim wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:58 amNot for lack of trying! Humanity needs someone who can preserve some good things forever; I call such a someone God; without God humanity will go extinct. So if God does not exist, people are conscientiously obligated to produce Her/Him. What's so hard to understand about that? What is contradictory about that?
I get that this is not your argument that God exists. What I was having trouble with what your assumed duty to the last generation of humans had to do with God.KevinSim wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:15 amThat's because it has nothing to do with the current existence of God. In this subthread I am not trying to prove the current existence of God. I'm trying to show why humanity needs someone who knows how to stop playing the mentioned metaphorical Russian Roulette, and I call that someone God. I'm not arguing that that someone exists; I'm simply saying that humanity needs that someone to exist.Res Ipsa, I find it hard to believe you feel a duty to the next generation but not the generation after that. You care about the second generation (after you) because the first generation (after you) cares about them, and because you care about that first generation. And the process is recursive. We owe the next generation a better world than we have, or at least one that is not worse. Have we really filled that debt if the next generation is just one generation closer to the extinction of the species?Res Ipsa wrote:And I don’t understand why you think I have some special duty to some future generation that I literally know nothing about as opposed to the next generation after mine.
I wonder if KS is going according to his own logical steps:
Yup. As sure as night follows day. Those are his standard chatbot settings ...Fence Sitter wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:57 pmSome of us have been down this road before with KS, several times and pointed out the same things Res and Malkie are saying. He does not get it. He will avoid responding directly to the posts and just ask questions. I fully expect him to respond to this post by asking me why I think he will avoid direct responses. It's his M.O.
It's interesting you would say that.Fence Sitter wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:57 pmSome of us have been down this road before with KS, several times and pointed out the same things Res and Malkie are saying. He does not get it. He will avoid responding directly to the posts and just ask questions. I fully expect him to respond to this post by asking me why I think he will avoid direct responses. It's his M.O.
As to Res's and Malkie responses, you make very valid logical posts as to why his claims make no sense but it can really be illustrated by simply substituting Santa Claus for God and asking Kevin how his arguments wouldn't apply equally to either. Or, you could just say that the Flying Spaghetti monster is what really preserves good things forever. Non Pastafarians are responsible to prove otherwise.
I predict that he will tire of dragging out yet another thread, disappear and reappear with the same stupid claims in a couple of years.
and the Tl;dr version:_KevinSim wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:11 pm<snipped>Reasonable, rational, objective enquiries into what is already known, can indeed produce a lot of positive results. But they are not the only things that result in positive results. Being based in reality is a good thing. But just as important as (or perhaps more so than) understanding the truth of the things that are, is understanding the truth about what things should be.I have a question wrote:You're making a statement based solely on what you want to believe, not on any kind of reasonable, rational, objective enquiry into what is already known.
I look at the universe and make the observation that if someone doesn't take action to preserve some good things forever, then nothing good will be preserved forever. And I register my rejection of an outcome where nothing good gets preserved forever. My conscience will not let me content myself with such a probable outcome. Conscientious people need a forever preserver. The only choice is whether one believes such a preserver currently exists, or whether one realizes that s/he must work toward producing such a preserver. I have simply made the former choice.
Sorry about that! I left out one very important word. I should have said, "But in the very beginning, there isn't another way of learning the truth" about God. We can't begin our knowledge about the will of God in our lives without input from God.I have a question wrote:Your very first statement "But in the very beginning, there isn't another way of learning the truth" is completely wrong, an entirely false premise, but you need it to be right because the rest of your conclusion relies solely upon it.
Do you think that that statement "is completely wrong, an entirely false premise"? If you do think so, then are you aware of another way to start one's knowledge of the will of God in our lives? Going on the assumption that a deity in control of the universe exists, of course.
_KevinSim wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:36 pm...No, you definitely do not need a belief "in gods to hope for a better future." But all God is for me is someone who knows how to preserve forever some good things, so if our goal is to preserve forever some good things, we do need my type of God.DoubtingThomas wrote:Do you really need to believe in gods to hope for a better future?