DP continues with his Holocaust fetish

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canpakes
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Re: DP continues with his Holocaust fetish

Post by canpakes »

DP wrote:Monumental effort and even ingenuity were devoted to the systematic transformation of persons — unique individuals, with complex personalities and minds and non-reproducible biographies — into non-persons.

Earlier Dan:
DP in 2018 wrote:From an outsider’s unbelieving perspective, all we’re doing is quietly mentioning a dead person’s name in connection with a few other words, and then plunging somebody else into a water tank located in a very private place. It takes approximately half a minute. I find it extremely difficult to see how the practice really harms anybody, if one assumes that it has no effect on the dead.
Hmm.
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Re: DP continues with his Holocaust fetish

Post by Marcus »

Even for Joshua Wilson, there’s likely nobody alive who ever knew anybody who knew him. He and she have both been forgotten. And let’s have no sentimental twaddle about how they live on in the memories of their descendants. Because they don’t. Unless it’s in the memory of a family history researcher.

In the temples of the Latter-day Saints, however, their names have been spoken again. They’ve been remembered. Valued. Served.

That’s a remarkable thing. The temples stand in direct opposition to the extermination camps of the Nazis and the Communists. They are monuments to Latter-day Saint belief in the immortality and the worth — the eternal worth — of each individual human soul. They are, truly, revolutionary.
this is offensive. more of the "Mormons do good things that NO ONE ELSE on the planet does." it's BS and i suspect Peterson knows it. i really think he says stuff like this to try to stay noticed. if so, that's really, really sad. is it so necessary to get attention that you're willing to be so negative and hurtful to accomplish that?
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Kishkumen
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Re: DP continues with his Holocaust fetish

Post by Kishkumen »

The point I was going for is that, why does Daniel continue to argue that baptisms are necessary in this life? Why can’t it be fixed later? His own church leaders in 1995 agreed to stop baptizing Holocaust victims. Did they lie? Do they think the unbaptized Holocaust victims will be damned now because Mormons weren’t able to proxy baptize them in this life? Daniel continues to whinge about it as if it’s necessary to baptize them here.

Is it because if we allow God to be able to take care of baptisms in the afterlife, it completely undermines the logical necessity of Mormons going to the temple in this life?
Well, yes, the ordinance is supposed to take place in the mortal sphere. If I were taking up that side of the debate, I would trust that at some point those baptisms will occur. I don’t think that would be inconsistent. Things change. Maybe attitudes will. Of course, maybe the LDS Church will die on the vine and the whole question will be moot.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
drumdude
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Re: DP continues with his Holocaust fetish

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Kishkumen wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:05 am
The point I was going for is that, why does Daniel continue to argue that baptisms are necessary in this life? Why can’t it be fixed later? His own church leaders in 1995 agreed to stop baptizing Holocaust victims. Did they lie? Do they think the unbaptized Holocaust victims will be damned now because Mormons weren’t able to proxy baptize them in this life? Daniel continues to whinge about it as if it’s necessary to baptize them here.

Is it because if we allow God to be able to take care of baptisms in the afterlife, it completely undermines the logical necessity of Mormons going to the temple in this life?
Well, yes, the ordinance is supposed to take place in the mortal sphere. If I were taking up that side of the debate, I would trust that at some point those baptisms will occur. I don’t think that would be inconsistent. Things change. Maybe attitudes will. Of course, maybe the LDS Church will die on the vine and the whole question will be moot.
I think as with everything, the LDS church wants to have it both ways. The want to keep members thinking it's absolutely 100% necessary to do right now this very instant. But also that anyone who gets left behind and not baptized correctly (imagine all the accidents where a finger or nose was sticking out of the water!) will be covered by God's grace later. It's just not logically consistent to have the baptism be simultaneously required and not required. It either is or it's not. Dan needs to find another soapbox issue to stand on because his argument that the Jews should just shut up and accept it is completely wrong.
doubtingthomas
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Re: DP continues with his Holocaust fetish

Post by doubtingthomas »

All Jews, Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I debaptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen

There, problem solved.
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
drumdude
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Re: DP continues with his Holocaust fetish

Post by drumdude »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:00 am
All Jews, Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I debaptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen

There, problem solved.
You don’t have the proper authority.

DoubtingThomas, I, having been commissioned of Christopher Hitchens, hereby bestow upon you the gift power and spirit of the Materialist Priesthood. You will now all bow your heads and say yes.
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Re: DP continues with his Holocaust fetish

Post by doubtingthomas »

drumdude wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:35 am

You don’t have the proper authority.

DoubtingThomas, I, having been commissioned of Christopher Hitchens, hereby bestow upon you the gift power and spirit of the Materialist Priesthood. You will now all bow your heads and say yes.
Yes! Somebody praise the Lord!
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
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Kishkumen
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Re: DP continues with his Holocaust fetish

Post by Kishkumen »

drumdude wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:12 am
I think as with everything, the LDS church wants to have it both ways. The want to keep members thinking it's absolutely 100% necessary to do right now this very instant. But also that anyone who gets left behind and not baptized correctly (imagine all the accidents where a finger or nose was sticking out of the water!) will be covered by God's grace later. It's just not logically consistent to have the baptism be simultaneously required and not required. It either is or it's not. Dan needs to find another soapbox issue to stand on because his argument that the Jews should just shut up and accept it is completely wrong.
Honestly I don’t care what DCP is arguing. I didn’t bother to check, and it doesn’t matter. As far as what is required or not, I always understood that the goal was to make one’s best effort to get things right. I don’t see anything inconsistent in that.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
drumdude
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Re: DP continues with his Holocaust fetish

Post by drumdude »

Kishkumen wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:00 pm
drumdude wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:12 am
I think as with everything, the LDS church wants to have it both ways. The want to keep members thinking it's absolutely 100% necessary to do right now this very instant. But also that anyone who gets left behind and not baptized correctly (imagine all the accidents where a finger or nose was sticking out of the water!) will be covered by God's grace later. It's just not logically consistent to have the baptism be simultaneously required and not required. It either is or it's not. Dan needs to find another soapbox issue to stand on because his argument that the Jews should just shut up and accept it is completely wrong.
Honestly I don’t care what DCP is arguing. I didn’t bother to check, and it doesn’t matter. As far as what is required or not, I always understood that the goal was to make one’s best effort to get things right. I don’t see anything inconsistent in that.
He is Mormonism's most prominent apologist. I don't get the recent downplaying of his views at all. He claims several times a year that he has the ear of top LDS leaders who defer to him on many issues that they don't have time to do the research on, making his views significant within the religion.
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Kishkumen
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Re: DP continues with his Holocaust fetish

Post by Kishkumen »

drumdude wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:35 pm
He is Mormonism's most prominent apologist. I don't get the recent downplaying of his views at all. He claims several times a year that he has the ear of top LDS leaders who defer to him on many issues that they don't have time to do the research on, making his views significant within the religion.
Is he? He perhaps *was*. I don’t think there is such a thing as a prominent LDS apologist of his kind anymore.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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