DiscussMormonism.com

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:33 am**

I normally avoid this drama but I have grandkids this age. https://out.reddit.com/t3_vt5q7y?url=ht ... reddit.com

Apparently I broke a rule and will edit this to fix the post. What I found unacceptable? This Mormon ecclesiastical leader was using baptism as a contract. A contract that a child cannot consent to especially at the age of 8. The leader was absolutely clear that all worthy males are obligated to go on an LDS mission. As it stands in Mormon communities, especially in Utah, there is a tremendous cultural pressure for kids to go and alienates those who don't. Kids should not feel any obligation to be coerced into church duty based on something they did at age 8.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:57 am**

That is very cult like behavior to tell vulnerable teenage kids they don’t have a choice but to serve the cult for two years.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:55 am**

Place the young LDS elder on the conveyor belt and flip the mission switch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiknvBvVRG8&t=53s

It is a shame that most young members of the Church will not be able to hear John Dehlin's response as this call for missionaries makes its rounds.

ByTW, Church leaders will continue to trot out this ending of free agency in support of Trumpian fascism.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:48 am**

Rivendale wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:33 am
I normally avoid this drama but I have grandkids this age. https://out.reddit.com/t3_vt5q7y?url=ht ... reddit.com

He should be released from his calling, immediately. He’s preaching that there isn’t agency - wasn’t that someone else’s plan?
He is exactly why young people leave the church.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:50 pm**

Rivendale:

Your post qualifies as “link-and-run.” As a courtesy to your readers, please say what exactly Mormon leaders need to stop doing.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:29 pm**

Dr. Shades wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:50 pm
Rivendale:

Your post qualifies as “link-and-run.” As a courtesy to your readers, please say what exactly Mormon leaders need to stop doing.

Dr. Shades, I tend to agree and also think you should consider the same for the massive threads Elizabeth has posted up in the Celestial forum. Lots of cut and paste and nothing of any substance from her. Thus, I think you are a bit of a hypocrite in this instance for letting it go on and on, wouldn't you say? The cut and paste on her end is nonstop and she ignores people who interject. How much longer will you allow this to go on? But with that said, she is pulling viewers into the board from Google searches so maybe it's in the board's best interest in this case? But her posts really are nothing more than church spam.

How does the following rule apply to Elizabeth's massive cut and paste threads? Explain yourself, Shades!

Thank you in advance!

10 wrote:Do not EVER "link-and-run." If you post a link to something, always explain what's at the other end of the link, why it's important, and what you hope other readers / viewers learn from it. RULE OF THUMB: If it's not worth your time to describe it, then it's not worth our time to click on it.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:33 pm**

Rivendale, Don't get me wrong. I think I'm in total agreement with you. This is a problem...but...

John complains the Church is telling kids what they should do, then goes on to tell kids what they should do? Of course Church leaders are going to tell kids what to do. It's a big part of their job. And its the job of parents to tell kids what to do. Beyond that it's the job of kids' bosses, teachers, and others to tell kids what to do. I hope he's not setting himself up as a religious leader again. "Don't do what the Church tells you to do, do what I tell you to do."

John:

Number 1: You always have a choice, especially when you're an adult.

True? I don't think so. Your choices are limited.

John:

Run away from any human who tells you you don't have a choice.

Wait...he's talking to youth (pre-18)?

John:

number three: Beware of any human who tells you that they know what God wants for you in your life.

Something I can get on board with. I'll take it further and say beware of any human who tells you that they know there is a God, for starters. And beware of any human, any adult who is saying anything. Be a bit cautious of John, for instance.

John:

Number 8: Your main job in life right now, is to work hard to figure out what is healthiest for you and what you want in your life.

Main job? I guess.

John:

Don't let anybody tell you that they know what's best for you in your life.

uh...ok. I guess they shouldn't let John tell them what's best for them? What they should do in considering a mission? He's being kind of silly and dramatic again.

To the Mormon Church, Please stop this very harmful and manipulative language.

Ok. I guess we can extrapolate and suggest this local leader said something out of hand--took it too far. I can agree. And yes, that falls on the Church's shoulders. But if there were not something manipulative in what he's saying and doing, then sure, the point sounds great even to believers, I'd wager. The problem is he's sounding just as manipulative to the ears of believers as this stake president is, I'd wager.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:04 pm**

dastardly stem wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:33 pm
Rivendale, Don't get me wrong. I think I'm in total agreement with you. This is a problem...but...

John complains the Church is telling kids what they should do, then goes on to tell kids what they should do? Of course Church leaders are going to tell kids what to do. It's a big part of their job. And its the job of parents to tell kids what to do. Beyond that it's the job of kids' bosses, teachers, and others to tell kids what to do. I hope he's not setting himself up as a religious leader again. "Don't do what the Church tells you to do, do what I tell you to do."

John:

Number 1: You always have a choice, especially when you're an adult.
True? I don't think so. Your choices are limited.

John:

Run away from any human who tells you you don't have a choice.
Wait...he's talking to youth (pre-18)?

John:

number three: Beware of any human who tells you that they know what God wants for you in your life.
Something I can get on board with. I'll take it further and say beware of any human who tells you that they know there is a God, for starters. And beware of any human, any adult who is saying anything. Be a bit cautious of John, for instance.

John:

Number 8: Your main job in life right now, is to work hard to figure out what is healthiest for you and what you want in your life.
Main job? I guess.

John:

Don't let anybody tell you that they know what's best for you in your life.
uh...ok. I guess they shouldn't let John tell them what's best for them? What they should do in considering a mission? He's being kind of silly and dramatic again.

To the Mormon Church, Please stop this very harmful and manipulative language.
Ok. I guess we can extrapolate and suggest this local leader said something out of hand--took it too far. I can agree. And yes, that falls on the Church's shoulders. But if there were not something manipulative in what he's saying and doing, then sure, the point sounds great even to believers, I'd wager. The problem is he's sounding just as manipulative to the ears of believers as this stake president is, I'd wager.

John would have been better off leaving out his commentary.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:52 pm**

Rivendale wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:04 pm
John would have been better off leaving out his commentary.

I thought he gave very good advice in a precise manner.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:07 pm**

IHAQ wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:48 am

Rivendale wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:33 am
I normally avoid this drama but I have grandkids this age. https://out.reddit.com/t3_vt5q7y?url=ht ... reddit.com
He should be released from his calling, immediately. He’s preaching that there isn’t agency - wasn’t that someone else’s plan?
He is exactly why young people leave the church.

Not so fast...
This guy is just doing his best Bednar impersonation. It's creepily accurate.
Link to Bednar's made-up BS for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmErOV9oQZ8

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