Brief history of my $ deal with Dan Peterson

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Dr Moore
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Brief history of my $ deal with Dan Peterson

Post by Dr Moore »

Consolidating to one place.

This history of my $10k offer to Dan Peterson, which was initially declared "null and void" but then, secretly between us over email, re-initiated as follows: I agreed to donate ~half of the $10k in exchange for nothing but Dan's good word to stop trash talking against this message board and members, and to moderate such activity among his guests. Simple deal. No other terms. He accepted eagerly! He was "good" for a few weeks and then just gradually slipped back to old habits. He was reminded, and insisted, against evidence, that he was trying to get there. It's not hard to be nice, and this deal did NOT involve Dan having to "do something extra" -- only to do less (of saying bad things about this board) and to convince his guests (especially, Kiwi57 and Louis Midgley) to do the same.

Links below give most of this history. In some of these, or the threads they're in, I've shared the original and subsequent emails between Dan and me. I paid the money, so my side of the agreement was fulfilled 100%. To this day, he whines and gripes that it isn't fair for me to demand he hold up his end of the bargain, that he "tried" or "tries" and that it isn't fair because people here still talk bad about him. But if you read the emails and all, you can plainly see, he anticipated people would still talk bad about him and he made a personal statement of intent to pretty much ignore this board. He's made such statements before, and since, and yet he helicopters over this board - it's probably one of the few always-open tabs in Safari or Chrome - and just seems incapable of doing the simple thing he promised to do (to not bad mouth this board).

Doesn't matter why that was his end of the deal. Some of the context you can find for yourself in the history. The bottom line is, that was the deal and he willingly and eagerly entered into that deal, for money.

Around mid 2020, after I posted a number of evidences proving beyond question that Daniel had gradually neglected to hold up his end of our deal, he made a half-assed plea in the comments of one blog post:
Daniel Peterson wrote: I'm asking everybody here to ignore them, more or less. Occasionally, I feel it necessary to respond (e.g., when, as they recently have, they level very grave accusations of anti-Semitism and religious bigotry against me). Still, on the whole, I hope that they will be ignored. I absolutely don't want their message board and its themes to dictate the tone or focus here in the comments section of my blog.

There is a fellow over there who made a substantial donation to the Interpreter Foundation with the expressed accompanying hope that I would do what I could to tone things down between his board and the comments on this blog. I'm trying to do that. (I keep my promises, and not only as a matter of public honor.) I have no control over that place, of course. The fury against me and you, and so forth, burns fiercely there and is likely to continue to do so until sometime after both you and I have been gathered to our ancestors. But I do have some influence here.
Sounds great, right? However, in the 2 years since that comment, he's allowed more and more bad behavior to creep back in. And not just his favorite guests, but himself too. He's back to old ways, as if nothing ever happened. He's back to dropping "Peterson Obsession Board" like it's 2018. He upvotes his favorite board-bullies for writing about the "sty," "sewer," and "scumbag central." So his 2020 comment plea was a toothless request, and one that Daniel himself has not held up, as he continues to obsessively follow every thread and cranny on this board, looking for villains to justify another childish, irrelevant excuse to break his agreement with me.

So for anyone who cares, here are a bunch of links that chronicle our deal, and the documented history of Dan's ongoing (2.5+ years now) failure to act like a serious adult in good faith, regarding a very simple agreement that he eagerly made with me, for money, benefitting the Interpreter, in late 2019. (no particular order)

viewtopic.php?p=2792028#p2792028
viewtopic.php?p=32954#p32954
viewtopic.php?p=2741305#p2741305
viewtopic.php?p=2722816#p2722816
viewtopic.php?p=2722525#p2722525
viewtopic.php?p=2730297#p2730297
viewtopic.php?p=2730306#p2730306
viewtopic.php?p=2730322#p2730322
viewtopic.php?p=2730405#p2730405
Original thread that started it all
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=152176

And for those looking for more current evidence that Dan continues to write - and permit/celebrate - the same bad mouthing of this board, here are some fresh examples which I found in a quick look this morning. You can find most of these by using the Patheos search function on words like "sty" or "sewer" or "swamp" or "obsession" or "scumbag."

Dan P is welcome to return the money, if he has any integrity at all. Otherwise, there is no way he can avoid history judging this transaction as a brazen act of bad faith, and a childishly reckless flaunting of one's good word, on his part.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... tment.html
I notice that a few folks on the Peterson Obsession Board have taken aim at the fireside that I presented in Calgary on Thursday night.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... arity.html
Louis Midgley: He (or those) from a certain sewer, the name of which I no longer know, since it has, I believe, had to change its identity, really have come to sic et non to entertain itself or themselves with mischief.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... lilee.html
MKWhitmer: Dan, I don't know how long it took to make this post, but it was definitely worth it... At least for us. I'm confident many from the "sty" are apoplectic after reading. Keep up the GREAT work.mw
(comment upvoted by Daniel Peterson)
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... -days.html
Kiwi57: You do? Wow, stop the presses! One inmate of the Sty agrees with another! Who would have ever seen that coming?
Kiwi57: It's a reference to your natural internet home: the Mos Eisley of the internet, the Peterson Obsession Board, Scumbag Central, Shades's Sty.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... a-why.html
Kiwi57: They don't have "critical thinking" over at the Sty. They just have hypocritical thinking.
(comment upvoted by Daniel Peterson)
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... -dead.html
Kiwi57: Apart from that, since you find your host "frankly disgusting," maybe you can take your virtue-signalling back to Scumbag Central, where you clearly belong.
(comment upvoted by Daniel Peterson)
Daniel Peterson: Why not? My mustache didn't save me from service as a bishop. And yes, I notice what you're doing. Several of the folks over at your Peterson Obsession Board obviously made far more out of that little reference that it warrants. But then, that is their métier, is it not?
Seatimer: As we contemplate the sweet, loving, endearing and inspiring messages provided by our dear false Doctors and Professors, many of whom can be observed on this very board and even more so at the Peterson Obsession Board, a.k.a. the Sty, the words of a true Doctor, Professor and Gentleman ring true:
Kiwi57: Yes he's working too hard, but he gets brownie points at the Sty whenever he can find an excuse to slip in a bit of standard anti-Mormon propaganda, even if it is as thoroughly debunked as that bogus Kimball quote.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... rpose.html
Daniel Peterson: I think you're aware that that is what that handful of weird conspiracy nuts over at the Obsession Board imagine you to have done with regard to Ms. Gina Colvin in New Zealand. You couldn't possibly have had any other reason to visit Aotearoa, right? I mean, it's so miserable a place, and you've never had any other contact with it or any other interest in it.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... craft.html
Kiwi57: Indeed you are, but you may still have some redeeming qualities. But you won't find them by merely being a conduit for the nasty prejudices of your worthless friends at Scumbag Central, none of whom can even be imagined to measure up to the status of a Martin Harris.
(comment upvoted by Daniel Peterson)
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... -noah.html
Kiwi57: Most "members" you know hang out at Scumbag Central, don't they?
(comment upvoted by Daniel Peterson)
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... yment.html
Daniel Peterson: I expect the series to be quite thought-provoking. And I note that it’s already drawing attacks and derision at the Peterson Obsession Board (and very possibly elsewhere), so that’s . . . well, something.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... archy.html
There is an entire message board that is largely dedicated to misreading what I write. This blog, however, is ill-suited to that effort.
Daniel Peterson: There is an entire message board that is largely dedicated to misreading what I write. This blog, however, is ill-suited to that effort.
Daniel Peterson: Please don't try to portray me as a bigot. There's an entire anonymous message board already dedicated to that noble goal.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... -ship.html
Daniel Peterson: The Interpreter Foundation is failing fast. I know, because I read it on the Peterson Obsession Board in 2012. By this point, there can't be more than two or three days left.
drumdude
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Re: Brief history of my $ deal with Dan Peterson

Post by drumdude »

Dr Moore Mon Sep 30, 2019 wrote:The $10,000 deal, as formulated with Dr. Peterson, is canceled.

As the only judge, I accept partial credit for the failure. Poor experimental construction. Too subjective were the criteria to allow for integrity to the letter while at the same time encouraging a smooth transition from from a boiling ocean to glassy pond.

Does one violation break the "best faith moderation" covenant? Two? Three? By whom? How often? Must every offending comment be deleted? What words specifically constitute an offence? How to judge implied vs explicit derogatory references? In what time frame must moderation action be taken? The devil, as they say, is in the details.

Clearly enough violations trickled through that I can not with integrity say that the letter of the arrangement has been met. The deal must be voided.

And yet, Dr. Peterson and several of his compatriots have made an impressive effort. Progress has been made. It is healthy progress. I am encouraged by what could happen with continued emphasis to wrap content in civility.

As a fellow MormonDiscussions colleague wrote a few days ago:
Kishkumen wrote:
We should always think of how we might do better by our opponents than they do by us. We may be wrong in imagining we have succeeded, but we will all be better off for trying


Therefore, while the current experiment has ended, I wish to make a parting gesture to invest in the future of civility on both sides of these heated conversations.

1) I will make a lesser donation to Interpreter Foundation, as a token of my good faith in Dr. Peterson, and admiration for his sincere effort in this exercise. Thank you, Dr. Peterson, for the past month and thank you in advance for future efforts.

2) I will also be making a donation to Radio Free Mormon, as a counterbalancing show of appreciation for the cost of continued research and articulated expression about challenging topics of interest to all of us.

Lastly, a word of appreciation to many who assisted with this experiment, and whose patience I have likely tried to the breaking point. Please PM me if anything I've done here offended you.

So a second agreement was made privately over email after this one ended? Was the second agreement that DCP would self-moderate indefinitely?
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Dr Moore
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Re: Brief history of my $ deal with Dan Peterson

Post by Dr Moore »

Yes, drumdude. You can see those details in the subsequent messages, which I shared after realizing that Daniel had no intention of actually honoring his word. One of the links above shows our email exchanges related to that agreement for ~half of the $10k. His agreement was "long term" and we discussed a number of possible versions. The one we settled on, he eagerly accepted.
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Re: Brief history of my $ deal with Dan Peterson

Post by drumdude »

Gotcha, thank you for documenting all of this.

I will say that reading through that first thread, I was actually surprised to see both sides tamping down the hatred. I applaud you for that small success. It's a shame Dan didn't see it through. His decision not to delete Sledge's comment on his blog equating this discussion board to the neo-Nazi site "Stormfront" is incomprehensible.
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Re: Brief history of my $ deal with Dan Peterson

Post by Marcus »

drumdude wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:58 pm
Gotcha, thank you for documenting all of this.
ditto.
... It's a shame Dan didn't see it through. His decision not to delete Sledge's comment on his blog equating this discussion board to the neo-Nazi site "Stormfront" is incomprehensible.
That one is really bizarre. He could just quietly delete it but he won't even do that.
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Dr Moore
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Re: Brief history of my $ deal with Dan Peterson

Post by Dr Moore »

I and others have been posting examples of Dan's blatant non-compliance with this deal for over 2 years.

In all cases, he could have quietly deleted the offending text. But he never does. Instead he takes a moment to bemoan his vicious critics who are attacking his integrity. He blames the victim, never takes accountability, and continues to do more of the same.
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Re: Brief history of my $ deal with Dan Peterson

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Thank you for bringing the whole issue back into focus, Dr. Moore. The thing is: Dr. Peterson's own belief system puts a premium on the idea of repentance and atoning for one's misdeeds. The evidence you've presented is irrefutable. And if DCP has any integrity whatsoever, he will return the money.
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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Dr Moore
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Re: Brief history of my $ deal with Dan Peterson

Post by Dr Moore »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:57 pm
Thank you for bringing the whole issue back into focus, Dr. Moore. The thing is: Dr. Peterson's own belief system puts a premium on the idea of repentance and atoning for one's misdeeds. The evidence you've presented is irrefutable. And if DCP has any integrity whatsoever, he will return the money.
Well, Doctor, you nailed this one in a DM to me which has long since been deleted in our board migration, but I do remember it well. The past year has been very busy for me, and I've not had much time to pay attention to SeN. Candidly, it was only because I recently spent 10 days fighting off Covid, that I had an opportunity to go searching through SeN to see whether Daniel was holding up his end of our bargain.

Imagine my dismay at finding SO MANY instances of him upvoting comments that make reference to our forum here as "Scumbag Central" and the "Sty" -- same as ever before -- as well as Dan himself continuing to write blog posts attributing some user's criticism to the whole of his long-held favorite insult label, "Peterson Obsession Board."

So yeah, it might have sparked a little bit of rage because the record I found proves, again, that when the cat's away, the mice will play. Daniel Peterson simply cannot be trusted to change or improve. I never intended to check daily or even weekly on his blog, but a small part of me hoped that a very simple agreement between adults would be honored in an adult manner. Peterson's whole approach to this deal, since within weeks of receiving the money, has been utterly and dreadfully childish. And yes, I think that unless he is willing to fix things (erase all offending posts and messages, or return the money), then an online record of it needs to remain uncomfortably visible.
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Re: Brief history of my $ deal with Dan Peterson

Post by drumdude »

Dr Moore wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:10 pm
needs to remain uncomfortably visible.
We can hope Google keeps it visible, sending Dan something like this to remind him.



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Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: Brief history of my $ deal with Dan Peterson

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Daniel C. Peterson,

Have you no honor?
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
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