Is Robert Boylan Attempting to Profit from Apologetics?

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Doctor Scratch
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Is Robert Boylan Attempting to Profit from Apologetics?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

A couple of days ago, both Tom and the poster called RedCloud provided a link to a YouTube channel operated by Mr. Robert Boylan. Boylan is a figure who has operated on the outskirts of Mopologetics for a long time--for example, he runs the scholarly blog "Scriptural Mormonism," which gets mentioned from time to time on "Sic et Non." For the most part, Boylan comes across as low-key and as someone interested primarily in scriptural exegesis, but his connection to the major apologists can be a cause for concern at times.

What caught my attention, though, was a link on Boylan's YouTube channel to his Patreon website. Here, Boylan is soliciting donations ranging from $5 on up to (!!!) $10,000 per month. ("one can dream..." he jokes.) From the looks of it, Boylan's appeals have attracted a sum total of 2 donors, who are kicking in $27 per month. Granted: this isn't a mountain of cash, but it will--rather like the money Dr. Peterson collects for his blogging--pay for a fast food meal or two. And let's face it--a profit is a profit, whether it's 10 cents or 10 thousands dollars. ("Not one dime of my salary comes from apologetics" was a familiar old refrain, though it turned out to be a complete falsehood.)

In any case, to my knowledge, this may be the first time in the history of Mopologetics that an apologist is openly asking for money that will go straight into his own pocket. DCP, Midgley, and the other "upper tier" Mopologists have been insistent on the idea that one should never, *ever* accept money for apologetics, lest one be branded a "mercenary" or a "charlatan"--epithets that have been hurled in the past at EV critics, and even at other Latter-day Saints such as Rodney Meldrum.

And don't get me wrong: I have no problem with Boylan collecting money. We all gotta get paid, after all. And though I'm nowhere near a free market capitalist on the level of, e.g., a DCP, I hope that Boylan is able to score a "millionaire" donor or two--perhaps the Interpreter Foundation can steer somebody his way. Maybe DCP can cut back on his travel by a day or two in order to toss a sawbuck in Boylan's direction.

That said, I'm quite surprised that this is happening right under the "old guard"'s nose. They have been so vehemently against this sort of thing for so long that it's surprising to see somebody in their orbit engaging in this sort of thing. You have to wonder: if Boylan's project takes off, and he starts commanding conferences with attendees in the thousands--I know, it's a longshot--will he face the same vituperative criticism that has been aimed in the Heartlanders' direction? Or will the Mopologists decide that profiting in this way is okay if one of their own is doing it?
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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Re: Is Robert Boylan Attempting to Profit from Apologetics?

Post by Binger »

Is it confirmed that the total donations exceed costs and will be passed on to the owners as an equity draw? Or, could this just be a contribution toward expenses like we do here at discussmormonism.com?
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Re: Is Robert Boylan Attempting to Profit from Apologetics?

Post by Moksha »

Binger wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:08 pm
Or, could this just be a contribution toward expenses like we do here at discussmormonism.com?
That is definitely a Shades-type question.
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Re: Is Robert Boylan Attempting to Profit from Apologetics?

Post by DrStakhanovite »

Robert, on the off chance you ever check this thread, your 10 dollar tier rewards seem to be missing:

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Re: Is Robert Boylan Attempting to Profit from Apologetics?

Post by drumdude »

Does this count as priestcraft? If not this, then what?
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Re: Is Robert Boylan Attempting to Profit from Apologetics?

Post by Marcus »

Moksha wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:21 pm
Binger wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:08 pm
Or, could this just be a contribution toward expenses like we do here at discussmormonism.com?
That is definitely a Shades-type question.
Nah, this is a question that relies upon an untrue statement ("like we do here"), and is asked only with the intent to provoke.
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Re: Is Robert Boylan Attempting to Profit from Apologetics?

Post by Binger »

Marcus wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:16 pm
Moksha wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:21 pm

That is definitely a Shades-type question.
Nah, this is a question that relies upon an untrue statement ("like we do here"), and is asked only with the intent to provoke.
So what is the answer? I believe donations for this board are applied to expenses and not toward a draw by any individuals.
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Re: Is Robert Boylan Attempting to Profit from Apologetics?

Post by DrStakhanovite »

drumdude wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:01 pm
Does this count as priestcraft? If not this, then what?
I don't think so.

There really isn’t a lot of room in LDS culture if your interests are in the humanities. It isn’t like Boylan could be called to the Pastorate (and be justly remunerated for it) or start a parachurch ministry and pay himself a salary. The only traditional option you have is to run the gauntlet of Higher Education (which, let me tell you, sucks an incredible amount of ass), fight tooth and nail to distinguish yourself enough to land a stable job with a tenure track, and then somehow attract the attention of BYU and earn an offer from them. Outside of having a lot of luck, or having a solid in with the good ol’ boys, you could easily workself into an early heart attack by age 45 just trying to feed your family.

What is even worse, is that BYU and broader LDS culture don’t really care for the field of biblical studies. There is a reason why BYU has been stacked with Classicists, Assyriologists, Egyptologists, and experts on Islam, but they rarely have people whose specific emphasis is either the Hebrew Bible or New Testament. Almost always it is somebody in an ancillary field who has the competency to engage biblical studies, but who properly belong somewhere else in the taxonomy of academic disciplines.

So being a Mormon in biblical studies is as hard a go as an outspoken atheist. The elite schools with liberal divinity programs have no problem employing atheists or Mormons, but the vast majority of schools that employ people with degrees in biblical studies are smaller Bible colleges and seminaries, who require faculty to sign statements of faith that an atheist or Mormon can’t really sign in good conscience.

I think the pivot into becoming a “content creator” who earns his gruel from a paying audience by doing the biblical studies from a Mormon perspective shtick is a good and viable alternative.
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Re: Is Robert Boylan Attempting to Profit from Apologetics?

Post by Philo Sofee »

drumdude wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:01 pm
Does this count as priestcraft? If not this, then what?
My holy gawd, Mormonism is entirely priestcraft....
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Re: Is Robert Boylan Attempting to Profit from Apologetics?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

DrStakhanovite wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:33 pm
drumdude wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:01 pm
Does this count as priestcraft? If not this, then what?
I don't think so.

There really isn’t a lot of room in LDS culture if your interests are in the humanities. It isn’t like Boylan could be called to the Pastorate (and be justly remunerated for it) or start a parachurch ministry and pay himself a salary. The only traditional option you have is to run the gauntlet of Higher Education (which, let me tell you, sucks an incredible amount of ass), fight tooth and nail to distinguish yourself enough to land a stable job with a tenure track, and then somehow attract the attention of BYU and earn an offer from them. Outside of having a lot of luck, or having a solid in with the good ol’ boys, you could easily workself into an early heart attack by age 45 just trying to feed your family.

What is even worse, is that BYU and broader LDS culture don’t really care for the field of biblical studies. There is a reason why BYU has been stacked with Classicists, Assyriologists, Egyptologists, and experts on Islam, but they rarely have people whose specific emphasis is either the Hebrew Bible or New Testament. Almost always it is somebody in an ancillary field who has the competency to engage biblical studies, but who properly belong somewhere else in the taxonomy of academic disciplines.

So being a Mormon in biblical studies is as hard a go as an outspoken atheist. The elite schools with liberal divinity programs have no problem employing atheists or Mormons, but the vast majority of schools that employ people with degrees in biblical studies are smaller Bible colleges and seminaries, who require faculty to sign statements of faith that an atheist or Mormon can’t really sign in good conscience.

I think the pivot into becoming a “content creator” who earns his gruel from a paying audience by doing the biblical studies from a Mormon perspective shtick is a good and viable alternative.
These are all excellent points. In some ways, I think that Boylan is stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's unlikely that he'll succeed as a "content creator," but if he *were* to find success (and I'm happy to wish him all kinds of luck at that), how much wrath would the old-school Mopologists rain down upon him?
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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