TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Shulem »

Shulem wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:37 pm
That would require transporting over 300 gallons of water weighing about 3,000 pounds. How can that much water be lightly transported?

And so, while at least 3,000 pounds of stored fresh water exerts pressure on the bottom of the primitive hand made craft along with the weight of all other contents on board, there is over 5,000 pounds of force pressing on the door hatch above when the barge is buried under 9 feet of water. Can a giant wicker basket being submerged under the violence of moving water handle this much force?

[ ] NO Because primitive hand made barges can't change the laws of science
[ ] YES Because Jesus's finger and magic rocks are protecting the craft
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

8

Post by Shulem »

Smith often borrowed numbers from the Bible to help decorate his stories and make them look authentic. The eight barges is an example of his thievery:

1 Peter 3:20 wrote: wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water
Ether 3:1 wrote:now the number of the vessels which had been prepared was eight
D&C 68:27 wrote:baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old
huckelberry
God
Posts: 2579
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:48 pm

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by huckelberry »

Shulem wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:56 pm
Shulem wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:37 pm
That would require transporting over 300 gallons of water weighing about 3,000 pounds. How can that much water be lightly transported?

And so, while at least 3,000 pounds of stored fresh water exerts pressure on the bottom of the primitive hand made craft along with the weight of all other contents on board, there is over 5,000 pounds of force pressing on the door hatch above when the barge is buried under 9 feet of water. Can a giant wicker basket being submerged under the violence of moving water handle this much force?

[ ] NO Because primitive hand made barges can't change the laws of science
[ ] YES Because Jesus's finger and magic rocks are protecting the craft
I am fairly sure that if a person is a believer in the Book of Mormon then they see this journey as miraculous. Miracle supply of fresh water, plumbing,survival etc. Of course at the same time the story does sound like a fantasy story.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Shulem »

huckelberry wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:41 pm
I am fairly sure that if a person is a believer in the Book of Mormon then they see this journey as miraculous. Miracle supply of fresh water, plumbing,survival etc. Of course at the same time the story does sound like a fantasy story.

I used to be a believer in the Book of Mormon but was never really able to wrap my head around this fantastical story which reads like BS. I never really believed it and put it on the faith shelf. The story of submerged barges being made of primitive materials by primitive people and transporting them in those conditions and the logistics required for survival is enough to break any shelf. It's nothing more than a faith promoting story, one which the Church really doesn't like to talk about because it's so ridiculous. In the end, the faithful member is forced to chalk it up as some kind of unexplainable miracle. Have you ever noticed that all those silly miracles in the scriptures are nothing we ever see or manifest in modern times? It's all BS!
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5810
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:56 pm
Can a giant wicker basket being submerged under the violence of moving water handle this much force?
That does test the limits of science fiction. I think Rod Serling would call for a rewrite of the script. Leave out the submersibility and the corks on the top and bottom. A plain 1820's Erie Canal barge towed by a heaven-sent di-lithium crystal would be the maximal tug at the reader's credulity. Have God place the passengers in suspended animation so food intake and output would not be an issue. Let the later writings of Jules Verne tackle the concept of the submarine.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Shulem »

Moksha wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:04 pm
Leave out the submersibility and the corks on the top and bottom.

But if a cork fits then why not use it? Just stick it in the hole real hard. No lube required!

Image

:lol:
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Shulem »

Moksha wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:04 pm
Have God place the passengers in suspended animation so food intake and output would not be an issue.

How can they sing praises to God all day and into the night if they are in suspended hibernation? Come to think of it, how would they even know whether it was day or night while being encased within barges? And if the brother of Jared is singing on one barge and Jared himself is singing on another, what did they do on the other 6 barges?

Ether 6:9 wrote:And they did sing praises unto the Lord; yea, the brother of Jared did sing praises unto the Lord, and he did thank and praise the Lord all the day long; and when the night came, they did not cease to praise the Lord.

The Kinks, "All Day and All of the Night"

I'm not content to be with you in the day time
GOD, I want to be with you all of the time
The only time I feel alright is by your side
GOD, I want to be with you all of the time
All day and all of the night
User avatar
DrW
Priest
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:25 pm

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by DrW »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:07 pm
I gotta tell ya, it would’ve just been better for God to have instructed them to build ships with rudders, sails, and ballast. You know. Since that’s an actual option on the table (ref Nephi).

- Doc
Just as embarrassing as the Jaredite fleet of semi-submersibles is the Book of Mormon tall tale of the Lehites wandering in the desert wilderness of Arabia, Nahom, Bountiful, the building of a sailing ship by God's command with rudders, sails, and ballast, and the subsequent Lehite/Nephite ocean voyage to the New World.

No less a scientific expert on the subject than a published and credible former BYU Professor and Dean, an internationally recognized Ph.D. botanist and respected authority on the natural history of the region, has stated unequivocally that there are not now, and never have been, trees native to the area that could provide the wood required to build the Lehite sailing ship (or any bluewater oceangoing vessel).

To my knowledge, no credible and appropriately trained individual has ever successfully challenged or refuted this claim (true believing apologists, including The Kolob Theorem author Lynn Hilton, the Astons, Potter and Sedor, and "diffusionist" apologist J.L. Sorenson notwithstanding.)
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous." (David Hume)
"Errors in science are learning opportunities and are corrected when better data become available." (DrW)
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Shulem »

19th Century Erie Canal Barge

The Jaredites are coming! The Jaredites are coming!

Image

Image
User avatar
malkie
God
Posts: 1478
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:41 pm

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by malkie »

DrW wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:28 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:07 pm
I gotta tell ya, it would’ve just been better for God to have instructed them to build ships with rudders, sails, and ballast. You know. Since that’s an actual option on the table (ref Nephi).

- Doc
Just as embarrassing as the Jaredite fleet of semi-submersibles is the Book of Mormon tall tale of the Lehites wandering in the desert wilderness of Arabia, Nahom, Bountiful, the building of a sailing ship by God's command with rudders, sails, and ballast, and the subsequent Lehite/Nephite ocean voyage to the New World.

No less a scientific expert on the subject than a published and credible former BYU Professor and Dean, an internationally recognized Ph.D. botanist and respected authority on the natural history of the region, has stated unequivocally that there are not now, and never have been, trees native to the area that could provide the wood required to build the Lehite sailing ship (or any bluewater oceangoing vessel).

To my knowledge, no credible and appropriately trained individual has ever successfully challenged or refuted this claim (true believing apologists, including The Kolob Theorem author Lynn Hilton, the Astons, Potter and Sedor, and "diffusionist" apologist J.L. Sorenson notwithstanding.)
A few questions spring to mind:
  • What would it have taken to import trees that could provide the wood required to build the Lehite sailing ship, or any bluewater oceangoing vessel?
  • Would the building of the Lehite ship likely have left any evidence that we could find today?
  • What evidence would you expect to find that the wood had been imported?
You can help Ukraine by talking for an hour a week!! PM me, or check www.enginprogram.org for details.
Слава Україні!, 𝑺𝒍𝒂𝒗𝒂 𝑼𝒌𝒓𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒊!
Post Reply