TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 3367
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Philo Sofee »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wJP80_Wcpk&t=82s

Nuthin but good analysis, fun, mockery and loud laughter on the Jaredite Barges as you so lovingly shared your stellar analysis with us lo those many years ago. I have reified the scholarship and praise be to thee Dr. W!!!
User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 5166
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:04 am

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

If board members haven’t watched this yet, I recommend doing so. I’m 50 minutes in and it’s an excellent reminder or primer with regard to the impossible Jaredite barge story actually occurring on any level whatsoever. And if a Morm is going to suggest the miraculous nature of the story is plausible due to God making miracles happen, then man, I gotta tell ya, it would’ve just been better for God to have instructed them to build ships with rudders, sails, and ballast. You know. Since that’s an actual option on the table (ref Nephi).

eta: I actually watched it twice (minus the shout outs on either side of the video). I never, never watch youtubes twice. Dr. W’s logic is unassailable and Philo’s delivery is fun and relatable. Great stuff.

- Doc
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 5141
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Shulem »

I will probably watch it again too, Cam. The story of the Jaredite barges reads like an eff-ing cartoon, man. Totally stupid and dumb. My God. What was Joseph smoking when it came time to mumble Ether out of hat? He must have some pretty good weed growing nearby. Do you suppose Joseph smoked weed behind the barn while he was porking 14 year old girls? :lol:

I've tried to locate the thread I recall having with W on this board about the Jaredites and can't find it using the search feature or Google. Can anyone locate the old threads where W weighed in? That would be nice.
User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 5166
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:04 am

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Shulem wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:19 pm
I will probably watch it again too, Cam. The story of the Jaredite barges reads like an eff-ing cartoon, man. Totally stupid and dumb. My God. What was Joseph smoking when it came time to mumble Ether out of hat? He must have some pretty good weed growing nearby. Do you suppose Joseph smoked weed behind the barn while he was porking 14 year old girls? :lol:

I've tried to locate the thread I recall having with W on this board about the Jaredites and can't find it using the search feature or Google. Can anyone locate the old threads where W weighed in? That would be nice.
The bit about bitumen is so absolutely unassailable that if I were a Mormon my shelf probably would’ve collapsed right then and there.

eta: bitumen stuff @ 36:48

- Doc
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 5166
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:04 am

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Any smart ones out there that could help a brotha out? At what depth would the barges have either imploded due to water pressure, OR the two hole stops would’ve blasted inward because of pressure? I’m looking at this hydrostatic pressure table here:

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hydr ... _1632.html

and I’m thinking these things would fail catastrophically at ~ 15 feet. Anyone want to take a stab at this *cough* DR. W?

- Doc
Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
drumdude
God
Posts: 2579
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by drumdude »

If DCP believes these transoceanic voyagers were possible perhaps he could find himself some driftwood and demonstrate it to us! :lol:
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 5141
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Shulem »

Ether 2:20 wrote:And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.

Folks,

Step right up and get the real story from Shulem, the Book of Mormon master! (Which means, I'm better than Vogel) :lol:

There are two holes on the barge, one "in the top" and another "in the bottom". Bear in mind there was also a single (1) door "and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish." This implies that the barge was thought to maintain an upright position with the door always on top.

I think Joseph imagined that there was a lower hole above the water line and an upper hole on the deck wherein there would be cross ventilation. That is the only way to ventilate because a single hole will do nothing but outgas. What's stupid in the text is it says when it's time to get air they simply "unstop the hole" as in ONE hole but I suspect it means to simultaneously unplug both so that air may rush in and rush out.

Stupid story and stupid text. IT IS NOT TRUE.

I bear witness of that in the name of who the hell ever cared. Amen.

And f you too.

:lol:

PS. Philo, get ur ass up in the Celestial forum and offer an opinion.
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 3367
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by Philo Sofee »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:32 pm
If DCP believes these transoceanic voyagers were possible perhaps he could find himself some driftwood and demonstrate it to us! :lol:
I can't possibly fathom a man of his intellectual stature and IQ actually believing the Jaredite myth as literal history.
User avatar
DrW
Teacher
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:25 pm

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by DrW »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:59 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wJP80_Wcpk&t=82s

Nuthin but good analysis, fun, mockery and loud laughter on the Jaredite Barges as you so lovingly shared your stellar analysis with us lo those many years ago. I have reified the scholarship and praise be to thee Dr. W!!!
Hey Prof. Sofee,

Finally got around to viewing your podcast. (Only saw yesterday that there was a link to it on the board.) Experiencing your dramatic video presentation based on that long-ago post was a real treat.

Just to set the record straight, however, the shaft of light that appeared before me after our message exchange revealed no personage. It simply shown directly upon the old remote drive on which the digital artifact in question was to be found. Apparently, those who no longer believe do not rate personal appearances by heavenly messengers. It does leave one to wonder about the source of said shaft of light. FSM perhaps?

In any case, thanks for all the work. IMHO, it was entertaining and definitely worthwhile.
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous." (David Hume)
"Errors in science are learning opportunities and are corrected when better data become available." (DrW)
User avatar
DrW
Teacher
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:25 pm

Re: TOTAL Shoutout to Ya Dr. W!!!

Post by DrW »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:21 pm
Any smart ones out there that could help a brotha out? At what depth would the barges have either imploded due to water pressure, OR the two hole stops would’ve blasted inward because of pressure? I’m looking at this hydrostatic pressure table here:

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hydr ... _1632.html

and I’m thinking these things would fail catastrophically at ~ 15 feet. Anyone want to take a stab at this *cough* DR. W?

- Doc
Hey Doc,

19th-century sailing vessels with wooden hulls with three or more masts would have had a draft of more than 15 feet. Three-masted clipper ships loaded with passengers and some cargo, and say 200 ft. stem-to-stern with a 30 ft. beam, would have a draft of around 16 to 20 feet. Forces exerted on the sails of tall-masted ships must be balanced by a deep keel, and in many cases, ballast as well.

Clipper ships were built for speed and so would have been mostly single-hulled. At sea, their keels and lower hulls would be subject to the same psi pressure as any other structures at that depth. While there was a lot of flexing, the hulls had adequate strength (mainly from the stringers as shown in the image below) that they did not fail, or even deform to any significant extent.


Image


However, they do leak. No matter what, wooden-hulled vessels leak and must have an adequate means of discharging bilge water. As Philo pointed out, it's pretty hard to discharge bilge water out through a breathing hole.

Below is an image from a present-day Arabian Dhow construction yard. Note the complex multilayering of strakes (outer hull lumber) stringers, stiffeners, and deck posts.

Image

The only way I can see to build the wooden semisubmersibles described in the Book of Mormon would be to build a bottom "dish" hull (as shown) and a top "dish" deck. The two could then be mated together at some beltline and sealed.

As a final response, considering that they were "light upon the water" and buoyant enough to float at the surface in calm seas, the chances of them ever sinking to crush depth would be minimal. They would be more likely to take on enough water in rough seas that they would simply swamp and become uninhabitable.

It would require more calculations than I care to run through to determine if, being made of wood, they would have been heavy enough with crew and cargo to actually sink. More likely that they would have simply broken up in heavy seas and become flotsam and jetsam - and fish food.
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous." (David Hume)
"Errors in science are learning opportunities and are corrected when better data become available." (DrW)
Post Reply