Church membership - Mexico

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Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: Church membership - Mexico

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Dr Exiled wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:06 pm

I think the Church needs another isolation period where those caught in the isolation area are forced to remain and endure endless indoctrination for a generation or two or three. Isolating in Utah and surrounding areas did the trick before. Without this isolation, the church would have been absorbed by the surrounding christian faiths as innovation seemingly died once Joseph Smith wasn't there any longer to copy and invent stuff.
I have no doubt the church would love to do this. They tried several times to isolate members from the internet, but that was just stupid and bound to fail miserably.
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dastardly stem
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Re: Church membership - Mexico

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In Mexico I estimated on average just under 150 members per ward active and just over 50 per branch active. That all adds up over the country to be 15 percent active. I'm assuming, at this point, there are quite a few members who aren't active but also still feel tied to the church enough to declare it is their religious preference and that makes up the difference between active and self-identifying. I suppose it could be the opposite (my assumption may be off) suggesting there ought to be far more active members than the estimate I arrive at. So keep that in mind, if anyone is interested.

Maybe I'll have to incorporate a range for the estimate rather than a straight estimate. Something more like the activity range for Mexico is likely somewhere between 13-26% or something. I'm wondering how useful any of this is though. One note I failed to mention is Mexico still has the most members of any country outside the US according to Church stats, although Brazil, with a few less members, could be said to be in a virtual tie with Mexico for that distinction. I estimate Brazil at a 19% activity rate with 281,000 Members. On this estimate Brazil (which has almost 400 more wards than Mexico) might actually beat out Mexico as second on the list of most Mormons--that is if we reject the organizations practice of counting straight members.

Some may think I'm taking pleasure in seeing the Church's declining growth rates, activity rates and such. I don't really. I'm interested because population numbers have always fascinated me. And this is an interesting case study in religious adherents around the globe.

One more shoutout to LDSGrowth.blogspot. He keeps a record of organized stakes and districts vs Discontinued stakes and districts. The church, on that measure, worldwide is still showing growth. It certainly used to be better for the Church, but growth is still happening even though awkward signs keep appearing around the globe.
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pistolero
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Re: Church membership - Mexico

Post by pistolero »

dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:49 pm
I'm going to continue to say I'm probably pretty close assuming there may be quite a few members who self-identify but are not active.
It's such a Mormon thing to ascribe an activity status to religious adherents. Many have been groomed by the Whore of Babylon/ state religion to perform rites, but not actually attend. You'd have so many people self identifying as catholic for example, but have never stepped across the threshold of a catholic church, except for the most recent funeral, wedding, etc...

My specific Mormon experiences in this parts and yonder seems to indicate a further category outside of the active/inactive, a more lethargic member, who comes infrequently, but consistently. In my ward of 110 monthly avg, we'd have 15 people doing the callings (reliables) and then just a random subset from 200 others who would wander in and out, as the wind blows wherever it pleases. Total unit membership was 1,000 approx, and plenty of dead people amongst that 1,000.
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Re: Church membership - Mexico

Post by pistolero »

dastardly stem wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:32 pm
Some may think I'm taking pleasure in seeing the Church's declining growth rates, activity rates and such. I don't really. I'm interested because population numbers have always fascinated me. And this is an interesting case study in religious adherents around the globe.
I don't think declining growth rates or unit organisation should be a disaster that some might think it is. When I was living in a country with some stake consolidation, I actually bought (some of) the official line BS. In a special priesthood leadership meeting, the visiting authority was saying how in a country where the church, and growth is new, it was necessary to get as many people as possible with some leadership experiences, train them, get them to see how the church runs, then consolidate into a more robust structure. Obviously it would have been better had membership continued to grow with the same trajectory as 20 years earlier, but still, by having more units, stakes, etc... more people gained leadership experience for the future.

I wish LDS inc would be more comfortable with variable growth rates. Embrace Jeremiah 16:16.
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Re: Church membership - Mexico

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pistolero wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:52 pm
My specific Mormon experiences in this parts and yonder seems to indicate a further category outside of the active/inactive, a more lethargic member, who comes infrequently, but consistently. In my ward of 110 monthly avg, we'd have 15 people doing the callings (reliables) and then just a random subset from 200 others who would wander in and out, as the wind blows wherever it pleases. Total unit membership was 1,000 approx, and plenty of dead people amongst that 1,000.
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Re: Church membership - Mexico

Post by doubtingthomas »

Nelson es pinche culo!
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
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Re: Church membership - Mexico

Post by dastardly stem »

pistolero wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:52 pm


It's such a Mormon thing to ascribe an activity status to religious adherents. Many have been groomed by the Whore of Babylon/ state religion to perform rites, but not actually attend. You'd have so many people self identifying as catholic for example, but have never stepped across the threshold of a catholic church, except for the most recent funeral, wedding, etc...

My specific Mormon experiences in this parts and yonder seems to indicate a further category outside of the active/inactive, a more lethargic member, who comes infrequently, but consistently. In my ward of 110 monthly avg, we'd have 15 people doing the callings (reliables) and then just a random subset from 200 others who would wander in and out, as the wind blows wherever it pleases. Total unit membership was 1,000 approx, and plenty of dead people amongst that 1,000.
Fair points. Your point works for the Church as a whole. I recall hearing many complain in Utah wards as well that some small percentage of members actually hold all the important callings over the years. Most arent to be trusted. Or they are too busy to dedicate the time. "activity" is not a perfect measure, neither is straight membership, and I don't know that self-identification is perfect either. Taking the all into account, I think, gives some hints and ideas though.
I don't think declining growth rates or unit organisation should be a disaster that some might think it is. When I was living in a country with some stake consolidation, I actually bought (some of) the official line BS. In a special priesthood leadership meeting, the visiting authority was saying how in a country where the church, and growth is new, it was necessary to get as many people as possible with some leadership experiences, train them, get them to see how the church runs, then consolidate into a more robust structure. Obviously it would have been better had membership continued to grow with the same trajectory as 20 years earlier, but still, by having more units, stakes, etc... more people gained leadership experience for the future.

I wish LDS inc would be more comfortable with variable growth rates. Embrace Jeremiah 16:16.
Agreed. I don't' think the Church sees growth problems as a big deal--as long as they end up positive each year in monetary gains, that's growth enough for them. I'd pretty seriously suggest growth means not much at all to the Church these days. They want to grow financially and that gives good influence in their minds. It keeps members happy because they are managing God's funds well, and continues to give them enough room to basically do whatever they want. I think keeping up appearances of growth is important to the Church. And I'd still say overall there's likely an increase each year, as small, relatively speaking, it might be. That momentum shift over the past couple of decades is interesting and makes one wonder what will happen in the next couple of decades.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
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