Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
User avatar
Doctor Steuss
God
Posts: 1671
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:48 pm

Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children

Post by Doctor Steuss »

Marcus wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:58 pm
if this is correct, it makes sense why they want the excommunication records released:
AP Story: Paul Adams was Excommunicated for having sex with his MOTHER, not for molesting his children.

Credit goes to u/nomomomobro

Source: https://mormonr.org/qnas/tpo8C/failure_ ... ee_arizona

Footnote 24:

Shaunice Warr stated that she thought she remembered Paul had been excommunicated sometime before 2011 and that his excommunication was unrelated to he abuse of his children, but rather for having sex with his mother. FBI Agent J. Allen stated that Leizza disclosed to him that Paul had been excommunicated for having sex with his mother. However, DHS Agent Robert Edwards testified that Bishop Herrod told him that Paul was excommunicated for the sexual abuse of his children. The court transcript implies that the excommunication occurred in 2013.

Shaunice Warr was a Border Patrol officer who also was the Adam's SS teacher and Leizza Adams (wife of Paul Adams) visiting teacher. She is the one who has a recording of the bishop (John Herrod) stating that the church helpline told him he "could not report sexual abuse".

Another crazy part of this, the bishop who didn't report this, John Herrod, was also the ADAM'S damned FAMILY PHYSICIAN!

https://old.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... ource=link
Shaunice Warr and John Herrod were both mandated reporters. Gross.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5810
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children

Post by Moksha »

“The judge’s order applies to the church’s secret records and to what happened at the secret ex-communication hearing,” said Lynne Cadigan, an attorney for the three children who filed suit.

Cardinal’s order will require church official Richard Fife, a clerk who took notes during the ex-communication hearing, to answer questions from the attorneys representing the Adams children. It will also require church officials to turn over records of the disciplinary council meeting.

“The privileged information will have been disclosed and we will not have our desired victory for Satan,” the church said.
The Church's position seems clear, but they left out the point regarding lawsuits and the right to abuse.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
malkie
God
Posts: 1478
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:41 pm

Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children

Post by malkie »

Marcus wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:58 pm
if this is correct, it makes sense why they want the excommunication records released:
...

Another crazy part of this, the bishop who didn't report this, John Herrod, was also the ADAM'S damned FAMILY PHYSICIAN!

https://old.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... ource=link
Multiple roles can complicate a situation. In this case, was Herrod-the-Bishop forbidden to disclose his knowledge of the abuse to Herrod-the-family-physician?

I know of a case in which a woman made a confession to her Bishop, and told him that he must not disclose her confession to her husband.

This put the Bishop in a bind because he was her husband. And so when not acting as her Bishop he was not permitted to discuss the situation with her because he could not allow himself as husband to know what she had said to him as Bishop.

As Bishop, perhaps he should have refused to hear her confession - I don't know how that would work - but the fact is that he didn't refuse.
You can help Ukraine by talking for an hour a week!! PM me, or check www.enginprogram.org for details.
Слава Україні!, 𝑺𝒍𝒂𝒗𝒂 𝑼𝒌𝒓𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒊!
User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 8980
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:04 am

Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:23 pm
The lawsuit accuses two Arizona bishops and church leaders in Salt Lake City of negligence in not reporting the abuse and allowing Adams to continue abusing his older daughter for as many as seven years, a time in which he also abused the girl’s infant sister.
I think KevinSim needs to hit the knees and ask about the trueness of his church again. This is absurd. Either Jesus is a capricious god or “Kevin’s” faith is misplaced and misguided. Whatever “preserve the good things” “Kevin” has in mind ought not include a church who protects a child rapist and later a man who had sex with a baby. Repeatedly.

Unbelievable. Actually, no. It’s very believable, and it’s … nuts.

- Doc
Hello? Kevin? Has your church aiding and abetting men who literally **** babies made you reconsider the “truthfulness” of your organization?

Image

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
User avatar
Dr Moore
Endowed Chair of Historical Innovation
Posts: 1812
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:16 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children

Post by Dr Moore »

Rezendes interviewed by Doug Fabrizio on Radio West this week.

https://radiowest.kuer.org/show/radiowe ... lds-church

Outstanding interview. Also available on Apple podcasts.

Rezendes begins by noting the commonalities between the Catholic and Mormon institutions:
* Large institutions
* Wealthy organizations
* Claim to be spiritual organizations
* Common interest: convert souls to their faith
* Common interest: Keep image of institution as shiny as possible
* Common interest: Shiny image allows to continue raising money

We know that Catholic money donations are down precipitously since abuse reporting brought the scandal to public awareness.

Also in common:
* Both institutions initially responded with "nothing wrong here" and insistence it was just one case, nothing to see here
* Believe this is just the tip of a very ugly iceberg, similar to what the initial Catholic scandal reporting became -- one led to revelation of "systemic" problems

What makes this different from the Catholic reporting?
* Mormon church so secretive
** All calls to help line destroyed every day, and those forwarded to Kirton McConkie are protected by attorney-client priv
** Disciplinary proceedings are done in secret, no recording
** However, there are cases filed and including the Boy Scouts case suggests "systemic" problem

Since the story came out last week, Rezendes has been "deluged" with emails, DMs, calls with more abuse stories. So many he hasn't even begun to get through them yet.

Rezendes muscle memory says there is institutionalized cover-up.
Dr Exiled
God
Posts: 1602
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:40 pm

Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children

Post by Dr Exiled »

Dr Moore wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:11 pm
Rezendes interviewed by Doug Fabrizio on Radio West this week.

https://radiowest.kuer.org/show/radiowe ... lds-church

Outstanding interview. Also available on Apple podcasts.

Rezendes begins by noting the commonalities between the Catholic and Mormon institutions:
* Large institutions
* Wealthy organizations
* Claim to be spiritual organizations
* Common interest: convert souls to their faith
* Common interest: Keep image of institution as shiny as possible
* Common interest: Shiny image allows to continue raising money

We know that Catholic money donations are down precipitously since abuse reporting brought the scandal to public awareness.

Also in common:
* Both institutions initially responded with "nothing wrong here" and insistence it was just one case, nothing to see here
* Believe this is just the tip of a very ugly iceberg, similar to what the initial Catholic scandal reporting became -- one led to revelation of "systemic" problems

What makes this different from the Catholic reporting?
* Mormon church so secretive
** All calls to help line destroyed every day, and those forwarded to Kirton McConkie are protected by attorney-client priv
** Disciplinary proceedings are done in secret, no recording
** However, there are cases filed and including the Boy Scouts case suggests "systemic" problem

Since the story came out last week, Rezendes has been "deluged" with emails, DMs, calls with more abuse stories. So many he hasn't even begun to get through them yet.

Rezendes muscle memory says there is institutionalized cover-up.
Thanks for the link. I was about to listen but am so disgusted with it that I can't right now.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
Dr Exiled
God
Posts: 1602
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:40 pm

Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children

Post by Dr Exiled »

Yeah, Kevin Sim should really look hard at the implications of an organization that is so worried about its reputation that it routinely sacrifices victims. Man, it simply cannot be what a god would want his organization to do.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
User avatar
sock puppet
High Priest
Posts: 397
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:29 pm

Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children

Post by sock puppet »

Dr Exiled wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:49 pm
Yeah, Kevin Sim should really look hard at the implications of an organization that is so worried about its reputation that it routinely sacrifices victims. Man, it simply cannot be what a god would want his organization to do.
Well, a "mysterious" god, maybe. But a god that has any degree of moral bearings would not want his org or followers doing as the LDS church does. This is why the belivers run into the corner of a mysterious god when their god's immorality is pointed out.
"I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal." Groucho Marx
"The truth has no defense against a fool determined to believe a lie." Mark Twain
The best lack all conviction, while the worst//Are full of passionate intensity." Yeats
Dr Exiled
God
Posts: 1602
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:40 pm

Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children

Post by Dr Exiled »

sock puppet wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:29 pm
Dr Exiled wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:49 pm
Yeah, Kevin Sim should really look hard at the implications of an organization that is so worried about its reputation that it routinely sacrifices victims. Man, it simply cannot be what a god would want his organization to do.
Well, a "mysterious" god, maybe. But a god that has any degree of moral bearings would not want his org or followers doing as the LDS church does. This is why the belivers run into the corner of a mysterious god when their god's immorality is pointed out.
Could be that the Mormon god is into this sort of thing ... it definitely is a mystery.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5810
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children

Post by Moksha »

Today's Mormon Stories read the recently submitted abuse stories of 300 members (there were many more, but even the long format Mormon Stories needs to have a limit). This was infuriating gut-wrenching stuff for Jews and Gentiles, but probably testimony builders for the Saints.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtrRRdMgXW4&t=6030s
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Post Reply