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Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:19 am
by doubtingthomas
malkie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:40 am
What? Where did I say that ? Either I made a huge mistake, or you misunderstood me.
You never said that. I thought you did, I'm sorry, I should've checked.
You did say that you saw his name on Facebook a few years ago.
Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:24 am
by IHAQ
Kishkumen wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:22 am
It boggles my mind that there are so many places where parents will knowingly send their minor children into a closed, windowless room with a full grown man who will ask those little children whether they touch themselves “inappropriately.” And then, when the child is honest, those full grown men will teach them to be ashamed of themselves.
It is completely awful, and it is a recipe both for creating risk of abuse and also for damaging kids psychologically.
It should have never happened in the first place, and it should stop right away. No ifs, ands, or buts. No excuses.
The risk/damage extends beyond that room. Children going through that process with their Bishop become desensitised to the risks of unrelated adults asking them intrusive personal questions. They became desensitised to the risks of being alone with unrelated adults. Bishops are unwittingly grooming their wards’ children for predators in other situations. They are also desensitising those kids so that when they became adults they don’t see the dangers for their own kids. Thereby propagating the misery across generations. It’s a horrifically dangerous, unnecessary and entirely preventable problem. But the church won’t even do basic background checks on people. Why not?
Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:03 pm
by malkie
doubtingthomas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:19 am
malkie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:40 am
What? Where did I say that ? Either I made a huge mistake, or you misunderstood me.
You never said that. I thought you did, I'm sorry, I should've checked.
You did say that you saw his name on Facebook a few years ago.
No problem, DT - I just couldn't find anything I'd written that would give that impression.
The fact is that I have no idea if he is dead or alive.
Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:08 am
by IHAQ
But the situation is considerably better than those detractors seem willing to admit.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... rance.html
How does Dan know that? Is he privy to inside information on just how many cases Kirton McConkie are currently handling? Here’s what we do know - despite protestations by the Church that they are the Gold Standard in child protection, the number of cases reaching the public domain show that they aren’t. Any information on this topic that’s been leaked over the years has only supported the view that the situation is a lot worse than people think, and that the Church has gone to great lengths and spent vast sums of the widows mite to settle out of court with gagging orders. It simply cannot be better than people think on that basis alone. Dan stops short of suggesting what more could be done, perhaps he doesn’t really think anything more can be done and any collateral damage (child abuse victims) is simply a cost of doing business. I’d like Dan to see if he can come up with a list of additional things the Church could do to make children safer - it’s an easy task.
On the whole, we’re doing relatively well. Of course, it’s not good enough. It’s not perfect. It can almost certainly be improved.
Go on then Dan, suggest some improvements…I dare you!
Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:52 am
by Moksha
Wonder if Dan could explain away the depraved indifference to the victims that occurs when the Church attempts to hide the crime?
Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:36 pm
by IHAQ
Moksha wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:52 am
Wonder if Dan could explain away the depraved indifference to the victims that occurs when the Church attempts to hide the crime?
Or why it is dealt with in the background as a financial transaction rather than alerting members every time there's an issue so that they are better informed about keeping their children safe?
Had the airline industry adopted the same policy to incidents as the church does, it would not be the safest way to travel today. Instead they collectively adopted a policy of airing and sharing incidents and near misses and so, over time, made air travel exponentially safer. Transparency, not secrecy, is the way to make things better. Yet the Church goes with secrecy first, every time. What does that tell us?
Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:51 pm
by Philo Sofee
IHAQ
I’d like Dan to see if he can come up with a list of additional things the Church could do to make children safer - it’s an easy task.
And it could be accomplished literally overnight. I mean once the revelation of blacks getting the priesthood was spoken, then
that very next Sunday they were getting the priesthood! All it would take is for Nelson to change the policy of grown men being alone behind closed doors with children under 20. How can that possibly NOT be accomplished
this week? All it takes is for a prophet to speak, if they could only find one somewhere within Mormonism to do it.
Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:03 pm
by Moksha
IHAQ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:36 pm
Yet the Church goes with secrecy first, every time. What does that tell us?
That they are inherently deceptive?
Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:02 pm
by Dr Exiled
IHAQ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:08 am
But the situation is considerably better than those detractors seem willing to admit.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... rance.html
How does Dan know that? Is he privy to inside information on just how many cases Kirton McConkie are currently handling? Here’s what we do know - despite protestations by the Church that they are the Gold Standard in child protection, the number of cases reaching the public domain show that they aren’t. Any information on this topic that’s been leaked over the years has only supported the view that the situation is a lot worse than people think, and that the Church has gone to great lengths and spent vast sums of the widows mite to settle out of court with gagging orders. It simply cannot be better than people think on that basis alone. Dan stops short of suggesting what more could be done, perhaps he doesn’t really think anything more can be done and any collateral damage (child abuse victims) is simply a cost of doing business. I’d like Dan to see if he can come up with a list of additional things the Church could do to make children safer - it’s an easy task.
On the whole, we’re doing relatively well. Of course, it’s not good enough. It’s not perfect. It can almost certainly be improved.
Go on then Dan, suggest some improvements…I dare you!
He admitted in one of the first posts on this subject that he doesn't know too much about this. So, to answer your question, he doesn't know if "the situation is considerably better than those detractors seem willing to admit." He is just making the statement in hopes that the troops won't lose any more faith than necessary. And he won't be suggesting anything constructive for the church to do as that is not the provenance of a cheerleader/mopologist. His work is to simply cheer on the team and minimize the bad while over-exaggerating whatever good there is. This is the problem with his ex-hypothesi nonsense. He cannot countenance any bad things the church may do or be doing or have done in the past. At least he cannot for very long without some sort of hand waving at it and immediately pivoting to cheerleader mode. Naw, it's useless to even listen to what he has to say about this as rose is his favorite color as far as glasses go.
Re: Mormon churches are not an exceptionally dangerous place for children
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:46 pm
by drumdude
A lot of Mormons are claiming the AP article is a fraud, and makes up the idea that the hotline number is a way to cover up abuse.
Like much of the rest of Mormonism, the specifics of how the church runs their hotline number is hidden from public scrutiny. We know for a fact that KM is involved and we also know for a fact that there is no blanket policy in place that reports every abuse to the police.