Information Asymmetry and Bednar’s Blunder

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Dr Moore
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Information Asymmetry and Bednar’s Blunder

Post by Dr Moore »

By now, everyone knows how Elder David A. Bednar, PhD, self-identifies as a highly trained statistician and academic. Well, that is, only when it serves him to assure listeners that he knows the numbers. Or, situation demanding, he may conveniently doff comprehension of hard facts by speaking “as an apostle.” If you’re missing the context here, watch his presentation and q&a with the NPC. Now, to be fair, Dr Bednar received a PhD in Organizational Behavior from Purdue. His undergrad studies produced BA and MA degrees in Communications. So I dare say his mathematics and statistics bonafides are as easily disputed as John Gee’s in the social sciences.

But before I digress, despite all of his business and academic training, including his confidence at donning a stats hat, Dr Bednar appears to have committed a huge calculation blunder when he answered one specific question at the NPC presentation linked above. In short he was asked whether the church would remove tithing requirements for members living in abject poverty, or at least adjust to requiring them only to pay on their increase, or income after expenses.

His response includes this phrase, referring to impoverished people:
Bednar wrote:The church doesn’t need their money, but those people need the blessings that come from obeying God’s commandments.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vAx1LRSB9kU&t=3082s
This sentence and what it acknowledges has already been widely reported. I won’t retread that ground. But a fascinating new angle on the story came up this week. A thread over at Reddit reveals Bednar’s Blunder.
Daau wrote:
The church is telling western country members a totally different message from what they tell members in Africa.

Last month, Elder Bednar told a group of journalists that "the church does not need their money" and he was talking about poor members in Africa.

GUESS WHAT? THAT WOULD BE NEWS TO EVERY MEMBER IN AFRICA!!!

Here is the video at the time he says this.

https://youtu.be/vAx1LRSB9kU?t=3082

Meanwhile, if I am reading the numbers right, the church is sitting on $180 billion in monetary investments, saved up tithing that it never uses for anything. Like pirate treasure sitting around on an island.

https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com

And that the church only gives about $60 million in money per year to help the poor? And that money is just from extra donations from members?

https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/ldsc

I feel like this is the twilight zone. How on earth does any church leader hear at what Bednar said, then look at these numbers, and have the gall to ask a single African member for more tithing money?

No leader ever in Africa tells members that the church doesn't need their money. Or that the church can already pay all its expenses for 30 years with no one paying tithing at all. That is NOT told to any African members. I bet if an African SP or Bishop told that to his flocks, he would be ex'd or at least released.

Members are only informed with talk after talk about how money will magically appear if you pay tithing. See this one:

https://africasouth.churchofjesuschrist ... g-blessing

If people would go there and spend even a day on the ground, you would know right away how hard life is, just to get by. No church should screw around asking good African people for money unless it actually totally necessary. Their average income per year is like the amount Americans will spend for a single vacation.

Even worse, members in Africa are taught that the ONLY way out of poverty is to pay tithing. It's like 99% of members live in poverty. So it's everyone, telling them they can be wealthier for paying tithing. There's a talk about this like every 6 months.

But you should all know, that the church doesn't do ANYTHING with their tithing to help alleviate poverty in Africa. The church hardly helps anyone there financially. It's policy not to hand out too much, like $10 is a lot, because otherwise people would just join the church for handouts. They are afraid of that too and this comes up in trainings all the time.

This is all so disgusting. It is unfair and amoral. It is a lie. For what, more money from the people who can least afford it so the church that doesn't need it can just add more to its pirate island? The church doesn't help break cycles of poverty in Africa. Not yesterday, not today. Local policy of limiting assistance for members also means, not ever.

I am forwarding these links to every member we know in Africa. Belivers or not, they deserve the truth. Truth that members in wealthy western countries already know. Please everyone do the same.
In essence, user Daau is claiming information asymmetry. In the west, apostle Bednar informs the media the church does not need tithing money from poor members! But is this message shared with members in the aforementioned “poor” countries? Evidently not.

The blunder, as I see it, results from obvious contradictory messages being shared in an asymmetric way to different audiences. To saints in Africa, the church needs their money. They’re never informed otherwise. Meanwhile, to the media in a wealthy country, the church doesn’t need their money but they need the blessings. He’s trying to appease a hostile audience by adding more information, flipping the script just enough to sidestep the accusation of taxing poor members.

By the way, according to this link, it seems only 44% of households in Africa have internet access.
https://www.internetworldstats.com/africa.htm

So it won’t do to retort that somehow there is no such thing as information asymmetry in this information age.

Before making that argument, someone in church HQ needs to adjust the tithing talks in Africa, and other developing nations, so “informed consent” is equalized (for those without web access) about the church not needing their money. Don’t all members deserve to know the same facts when making life altering choices?

This may be a fresh application of chapel vs internet Mormons.
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Re: Information Asymmetry and Bednar’s Blunder

Post by drumdude »

A flat 10 percent tax hits the poor much harder than it hits the wealthy.

In Mormonism, it means the blessings of paying tithing are much more affordable to the rich than the poor. You could even call it a luxury good.
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Re: Information Asymmetry and Bednar’s Blunder

Post by Gadianton »

Africa is a fat bone for the Brethren to chew on. China and Russia get first dibs. The church leaders including Bednar should be ashamed of themselves.
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Re: Information Asymmetry and Bednar’s Blunder

Post by dastardly stem »

Telling people in poverty that they can't afford to not donate money to a wealthy organization while you yourself sit comfortably in relative luxury is about as heartless a thing someone could do. Its truly that pathetic.
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Re: Information Asymmetry and Bednar’s Blunder

Post by Bedlamite »

Related - The following is 100% second-hand information from someone who works at Church Headquarters. Bountiful is teaming with these folks.

Apparently, someone in the SLC-top-three was less than happy with Bednar's presentation at the NPC. You can see at the following that Bednar was a key participant in the Washington DC temple open house and rededication efforts. Here is a link to one of the articles, there are more links on his Facebook page:

https://www.thechurchnews.com/2022/4/22 ... us-freedom

Then after what some have privately characterized as a less than Hinckley-like performance at the NPC, his name was conspicuously absent from the official travel list for the rededication tour.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2 ... 20sessions.

After being so heavily involved with the open house and associated events, it is interesting that Bednar was not invited. Gong - check. Christopherson - check. Bednar - not so much. Also, should anyone ask, the official reason will be a "scheduling conflict".

Probably nothing.
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Re: Information Asymmetry and Bednar’s Blunder

Post by Rivendale »

Bedlamite wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:49 pm
Related - The following is 100% second-hand information from someone who works at Church Headquarters. Bountiful is teaming with these folks.

Apparently, someone in the SLC-top-three was less than happy with Bednar's presentation at the NPC. You can see at the following that Bednar was a key participant in the Washington DC temple open house and rededication efforts. Here is a link to one of the articles, there are more links on his Facebook page:

https://www.thechurchnews.com/2022/4/22 ... us-freedom

Then after what some have privately characterized as a less than Hinckley-like performance at the NPC, his name was conspicuously absent from the official travel list for the rededication tour.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2 ... 20sessions.

After being so heavily involved with the open house and associated events, it is interesting that Bednar was not invited. Gong - check. Christopherson - check. Bednar - not so much. Also, should anyone ask, the official reason will be a "scheduling conflict".

Probably nothing.
Maybe Susan Bednar's husband got the cold shoulder from Susan and she demanded to go home? Probably not. He was sent to a hot rock by Russel Nelson and contemplate his blunder. Susan Bednar's husband has been known to be a prolific work out artist often seen running the stadium steps in Rexburg. My hunch is he is doing this behind the scenes.
Frankie has been known to be very sensitive. His nickname is "Fragile Frankie Merman", as whenever someone did something that hurt him, he would run into the woods and dig a hole for himself and cry for hours. He is shown to still harbor this personality.
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Dr Moore
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Re: Information Asymmetry and Bednar’s Blunder

Post by Dr Moore »

Bedlamite, that is a very interesting tidbit indeed!

You have to wonder if Nelson isn't suddenly feeling threatened by all of the publicity Bednar receives for his ultra-fundamentalist wordplay? The Bednar greatest hits list might be the closest rival to Nelson's by now.

Now with the NPC presentation, Bednar not only relates himself publicly as a sort of "heir apparent" to GBH (GBH was the last LDS leader to speak at the NPC in 2000), but if you listen, there were moments when Bednar hearkens back to things Hinckley said or did with tremendous reverence. Having worked so hard to undo much of Hinckley's "Mormon" legacy, Nelson must be dying inside over Bednar's genuflections to the prophet who spent millions on victories for Satan. But who knows. After all, Bednar did later call Nelson "courageous" for dumping the pejorative label "Mormon."

Maybe Nelson just gets irked when members of his quorum over-cite previous prophets, period. It is astonishing to see the number of times we hear "President Nelson has taught" at conference these days. References to Nelson, Nelson's teachings, and Nelson's life are off the charts on a relative scale.

Here's the data on conference mentions of LDS prophets. The Nelson spike is over 2x higher than Hinckley, Monson or Benson ever were. By the way, this is only through 2019, Nelson's 2nd year as prophet. No doubt that spike has sustained, if not risen.
(https://search-mo-db.herokuapp.com/)

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Re: Information Asymmetry and Bednar’s Blunder

Post by Dr Moore »

dastardly stem wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:46 pm
Telling people in poverty that they can't afford to not donate money to a wealthy organization while you yourself sit comfortably in relative luxury is about as heartless a thing someone could do. Its truly that pathetic.
It is more than a little heartless, as none of the current brethren have ever lived for even a month in abject poverty.

Lack of transparency to be just as heartless. Consider: Causse, Bednar and all of the brethren trot out the “seven years of famine” belief every time they’re questioned about the billions in invested tithing. However, the seven years was prophesied, and the seven years of savings ahead of that was fully transparent. It’s insulting to pretend at following some Biblical story, but without a specific prophecy and done in decades of secrecy.
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