Marines over a Mission

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Kishkumen
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Re: Marines over a Mission

Post by Kishkumen »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:09 pm
To be clear, the church will follow the command given by the Savior in Matthew 28.

Baptizing is a bit difficult to do without actually going out into the nations and proselyting.

Regards,
MG
Yeah, senior missionaries can do that, MG. It should be clear, based on what I said, that I was talking about the current configuration of an LDS mission in which young people in their late teens go out like lambs to the slaughter by serving a mission underprepared and with unprecedented challenges in front of them.

I did OK on my mission, but I did not have the Internet to contend with. I was also 19.5 years old when I left. Moreover, I did not live in a helicopter parenting culture. I was part of the latchkey kid culture. Still, I found the mission very difficult, and at one point I did consider leaving. I am glad I did not, and I will never regret my mission, but there is a severe missionary crisis right now. Simply pointing to the Savior's mandate to proselyte to the world does not address the problem, nor does it prove that the configuration of an LDS mission will not significantly change.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
MG 2.0
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Re: Marines over a Mission

Post by MG 2.0 »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:16 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:09 pm
To be clear, the church will follow the command given by the Savior in Matthew 28.

Baptizing is a bit difficult to do without actually going out into the nations and proselyting.

Regards,
MG
Yeah, senior missionaries can do that, MG.
Ha!

Regards,
MG
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Kishkumen
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Re: Marines over a Mission

Post by Kishkumen »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:22 pm
Ha!

Regards,
MG
Are you saying they can't? I mean, how many people are getting baptized every month these days? In fact, I will go one further and say that for the most part local congregations can handle all of the proselyting and ordinances needed to fulfill Jesus' mandate.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Marines over a Mission

Post by tapirrider »

DrW wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:31 pm

Tapirrider,

There was a subtle bit of symbolism in the image that really hit home on second look. Did you notice it? While I never made Staff Sergeant, I knew full well that one of their responsibilities, especially in front-line combat organizations, was to watch out for the Second Lieutenants - even before the Privates (we Sergeants could look out for them). Loss of a second lieutenant would be taken especially hard by the senior NCOs.

Chances are that there was another Staff Sergeant somewhere in Iraq who felt the same kind of responsibility that the individual standing guard felt. I'm sure he would have been somewhat comforted to know that another Staff Sergeant was watching out for the widow on that last night.
I did not know the details until your post here.
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Re: Marines over a Mission

Post by MG 2.0 »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:25 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:22 pm
Ha!

Regards,
MG
Are you saying they can't? I mean, how many people are getting baptized every month these days? In fact, I will go one further and say that for the most part local congregations can handle all of the proselyting and ordinances needed to fulfill Jesus' mandate.
What I’m finding humorous is the idea of older folks having the burden of “Go ye out into all the world” placed on their shoulders. Also, the idea of local members carrying the load of doing all the missionary work? Good luck with that.😄

I do agree that there have been and will continue to be adjustments in the way missionary work is done. But I don’t think that these adjustments will include discontinuing the practice of sending young men and women out into the mission field.

Most of them have plenty of vim and vigor. And many of them have the beginnings of a testimony. Somewhere on the Alma 32 gradient/spectrum. A mission gives them the opportunity to watch/see the seed grow AS THEY SERVE others.

Regards,
MG
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Re: Marines over a Mission

Post by Doctor Steuss »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:58 pm
Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:25 pm


Are you saying they can't? I mean, how many people are getting baptized every month these days? In fact, I will go one further and say that for the most part local congregations can handle all of the proselyting and ordinances needed to fulfill Jesus' mandate.
What I’m finding humorous is the idea of older folks having the burden of “Go ye out into all the world” placed on their shoulders. Also, the idea of local members carrying the load of doing all the missionary work? Good luck with that.😄

I do agree that there have been and will continue to be adjustments in the way missionary work is done. But I don’t think that these adjustments will include discontinuing the practice of sending young men and women out into the mission field.

Most of them have plenty of vim and vigor. And many of them have the beginnings of a testimony. Somewhere on the Alma 32 gradient/spectrum. A mission gives them the opportunity to watch/see the seed grow AS THEY SERVE others.

Regards,
MG
I think you are vastly underestimating, and cheapening the massive role that Stake missionaries, regular local members, and senior missionaries play in finding people for missionaries to teach the discussions to.

Any (at least recent) missionary can tell you that the success rate of "cold call" proselyting isn't even in the same ballpark as going off of referrals. The cold call method is basically a time-filler for when there aren't any service opportunities or referrals.
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Re: Marines over a Mission

Post by MG 2.0 »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:15 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:58 pm


What I’m finding humorous is the idea of older folks having the burden of “Go ye out into all the world” placed on their shoulders. Also, the idea of local members carrying the load of doing all the missionary work? Good luck with that.😄

I do agree that there have been and will continue to be adjustments in the way missionary work is done. But I don’t think that these adjustments will include discontinuing the practice of sending young men and women out into the mission field.

Most of them have plenty of vim and vigor. And many of them have the beginnings of a testimony. Somewhere on the Alma 32 gradient/spectrum. A mission gives them the opportunity to watch/see the seed grow AS THEY SERVE others.

Regards,
MG
I think you are vastly underestimating, and cheapening the massive role that Stake missionaries, regular local members, and senior missionaries play in finding people for missionaries to teach the discussions to.

Any (at least recent) missionary can tell you that the success rate of "cold call" proselyting isn't even in the same ballpark as going off of referrals. The cold call method is basically a time-filler for when there aren't any service opportunities or referrals.
In no way am I minimizing the “role that Stake missionaries, regular local members, and senior missionaries play in finding people for missionaries to teach the discussions to.”

Young missionaries sent out all over the world are THE key players in this formula you’ve suggested. You didn’t leave the younger Elders and Sisters out. Hurrah!

I believe that the Lord wants these young men and women out in the world serving others, growing and maturing, and bringing souls to Christ.

Most of the return missionaries are better for it. Exceptions? Yes.

It is an individual choice that is made to either stay on the covenant path or not when they return.

Regards,
MG
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Re: Marines over a Mission

Post by Marcus »

DrW wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:57 am
With advancing age one tends to look back over the decisions made at the turning points in their life and wonder how things might have turned out had they chosen the other fork in the road.

I chose military service instead of a mission. At that age, I was more comfortable with the idea of being a Marine, and possibly a Marine aviator, than being a guy in a suit and hat knocking on the doors of strangers who would rather that I didn't.

Having done splits with the missionaries, I found the work stressful and tedious, to say the least. And I'll admit that the idea of making money instead of spending your savings for two years was attractive as well.

As the LDS Church has drifted right, slipping into irrelevance and even disrepute in the wider world, I'm more grateful each year for the choice I made.
Perfectly said, thank you.
That said, it has been a long time (if ever) that a Marine has made me as proud to be in that fraternity as the Staff Sergeant pictured below.

Image
Truly. My Marine nephew was involved with the logistics side of returning the bodies of these proud souls to their families, some 20 years back. It was hard work, and emotionally taxing beyond belief. he grew up from an unfocused kid into a deeply responsible and caring man in less time than I would have thought possible.
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Re: Marines over a Mission

Post by Morley »

DrW wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:57 am
I chose military service instead of a mission. At that age, I was more comfortable with the idea of being a Marine, and possibly a Marine aviator, than being a guy in a suit and hat knocking on the doors of strangers who would rather that I didn't.
I was a staff sergeant in Pleiku, rather than a missionary in São Paulo. Like you, DrW, I've never regretted my choice.
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Kishkumen
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Re: Marines over a Mission

Post by Kishkumen »

Most of the return missionaries are better for it. Exceptions? Yes.

It is an individual choice that is made to either stay on the covenant path or not when they return.

Regards,
MG
So, I hope it is true that the vast majority serve honorably and cherish the experience afterward. The way it sounds, though, nearly a third are going home early. That is a crisis situation and bespeaks a broken system.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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