All atheists should be nihilists

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Philo Sofee
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Re: All atheists should be nihilists

Post by Philo Sofee »

The amusing part of Peterson's myopia is him not realizing I am an atheist... in the god he believes in, but I am not a nihilist, since I am continuing to seek for truth and spirituality.
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Physics Guy
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Re: All atheists should be nihilists

Post by Physics Guy »

As I’ve said, I’m not sure what “meaning” means in this context. It seems to me to be a placeholder word.

But I agree, at least partly, that eternal life and annihilation are less different than one might think. Either alternative can make one wonder why anything here and now is worth bothering about.

The earthly life of an immortal being is only insignificant, though, in the way that the kindergarten career of a future world leader is insignificant. When you’re signing the great treaty no-one will care about that time when you spilled the glue.

Perhaps they would care, on the other hand, if they knew that the world owed its peace to a sticky preschool scuffle that shaped a future leader.

I don’t think that living for one’s children is a good later-life motivation. It shades too smoothly into expecting them to live for you.
I was a teenager before it was cool.
dastardly stem
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Re: All atheists should be nihilists

Post by dastardly stem »

I suppose that'd be kind of the point...what is meant by "meaning" here anyway? It sounds to me like if one doesn't accept the assumptions that they do, then those objectors don't have much meaning in life. If religion is just a bunch of concepts developing over time to give people reason to follow teaching, based on previous imaginative ideas of what might happen when the lights go out...then the "meaning" they tell us that they have and no one else has, is made up. Its hoping for things that never come. If a Mormon tells me their meaning or goal in life is to reign and rule over a world someday, and that never happens for anyone, then their meaning is not very meaningful at all. If a traditional Christian lives to be saved one day and no one ever gets saved, then again, their meaning isn't all that meaningful at all. Asserting their meaning is objective because they assert there's a god and their religion is true, doesn't make their meaning any more meaningful than another's. Its all just an assertion. Claiming an objective basis for meaning isn't demonstrating they have objectivity nor anything superior to live for.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
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Gadianton
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Re: All atheists should be nihilists

Post by Gadianton »

The reason why DCP can't be consistent here is because whether the word is "meaning" or "purpose" or synonyms of these words, there are competing impulses to see meaning as something to do with objectivity, and something to do with personal tastes. It would take some serious reflection to sort this out, and some people are opposed to any kind of serious reflection.

That fish are food for sharks is meaningful to sharks, not fish. But if a shark has self-awareness, it may ask what the point of all the eating is. Is there some greater purpose than just having to be in this circumstance with all these teeth and this voracious impulse to eat?

I don't have a great answer.

DCP doesn't seem to be aware of the conflict, but he seems to have unofficially reduced the tension by making sure that all the objectivity provided by God just happens to line up with what's good for him personally.
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Doctor Steuss
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Re: All atheists should be nihilists

Post by Doctor Steuss »

DP wrote:Some atheists most certainly are nihilists. And it's arguable that all atheists should , logically and consistently, be nihilists.
I just remembered something from Rabbi Kushner that's a bit of contrast in how one looks upon those who lack belief in deity.
You don't have to be religious to have a soul; everybody has one. You don't have to be religious to perfect your soul; I have found saintliness in avowed atheists.
The Lord Is My Sheppard...

Rabbi Kushner goes on to talk about the role of being religious on having one's soul "restored" (referring to Jeremiah's tree planted in the desert), but also talks about how human souls are "nourished by relationships, and... friendship." Basically, there's power in being religious, but there's also power in simply being human.

Philosophy, and formal logic are among the long list of things I generally don't know much about, but it seems to me that "logically, and consistently," from the perspective of a religion that has a belief in "the light of Christ," and that all humans are literally spirt children of deity, and gods "in embryo" -- atheists, along with all men, have it naturally imbued within them to be anything but nihilists. Belief (or lack thereof) doesn't make someone cease to be what they ultimately are by their very nature.

Or have I ventured too far into the weeds here?
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