God is evil, or likes it, or enjoys it whatever

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Moksha
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Re: God is evil, or likes it, or enjoys it whatever

Post by Moksha »

Are we certain that God's sole purpose is not to enlarge the Ensign Peak Investment Fund and that all actions have been addressed to that purpose? If so, all the rest seems to be a misunderstanding based on assumptions of benevolence.




God wants a Starship so that the Saints can proselytize across the galaxy.
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dastardly stem
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Re: God is evil, or likes it, or enjoys it whatever

Post by dastardly stem »

Marcus wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:30 am
Gadianton wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:16 pm


Why? Why does the technical ability create something assure that a creator is good?
this discussion reminds me of Kirk's question,

“what does God want with a starship?”
...Of course, we know that Kirk isn’t looking from an answer from “God”. What Kirk is doing is challenging the claim that the blue-faced, Sith lightning bolt-throwing, creature of Sha Ka Ree is God at all. You see, Captain James Tiberius Kirk does not believe that God exists....

Roddenberry’s vision of the future is a universe where testable science and reason is preferred to superstition and religious faith....

The Star Trek preference of the secular over religion is best articulated by Bertrand Russell in his essay, “Why I Am Not A Christian”. Russell writes that religion:

… inflicts all sorts of people undeserved and unnecessary suffering. And of course, as we know, it is in its major part an opponent still of progress and of improvement in all the ways that diminish suffering in he world…

Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown, and partly as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all of your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing – fear of the mysteries, fear of defeat, fear of death.


https://themindlessphilosopher.wordpres ... -starship/
Searched out fear on the LDS website and found this from Uchtdorf before he was demoted:
Historically, fear has often been used as a means to get people to take action. Parents have used it with their children, employers with employees, and politicians with voters.

Experts in marketing understand the power of fear and often employ it. This is why some advertisements seem to carry the implicit message that if we fail to buy their breakfast cereal or miss out on the newest video game or cell phone, we run the risk of living a miserable life, dying alone and unhappy....

First, let us address the problem with fear. After all, who among us has never been compelled by fear to eat better, wear a seat belt, exercise more, save money, or even repent of sin?

It is true that fear can have a powerful influence over our actions and behavior. But that influence tends to be temporary and shallow. Fear rarely has the power to change our hearts, and it will never transform us into people who love what is right and who want to obey Heavenly Father.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... r?lang=eng

I"d question his Heavenly Father part, pretty harshly, but I think he did a good job challenging fear as motivation. And it does appear to me religion plays on fears and persists or gets such hold due to the fears that Russell suggests.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
dastardly stem
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Re: God is evil, or likes it, or enjoys it whatever

Post by dastardly stem »

huckelberry wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:24 pm

dastardly stem, your wager is what I view as my fundamental religious belief.

It is also what I get out of the Bible though that book has been interpreted in a variety of ways and has some military ideals.
It's really a pleasure to hear from you, huckelberry, as you present with a good deal of honesty. Always appreciated.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
Marcus
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Re: God is evil, or likes it, or enjoys it whatever

Post by Marcus »

dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:00 pm
Marcus wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:30 am

this discussion reminds me of Kirk's question,

“what does God want with a starship?”
Searched out fear on the LDS website and found this from Uchtdorf before he was demoted:
Historically, fear has often been used as a means to get people to take action. Parents have used it with their children, employers with employees, and politicians with voters.

Experts in marketing understand the power of fear and often employ it. This is why some advertisements seem to carry the implicit message that if we fail to buy their breakfast cereal or miss out on the newest video game or cell phone, we run the risk of living a miserable life, dying alone and unhappy....

First, let us address the problem with fear. After all, who among us has never been compelled by fear to eat better, wear a seat belt, exercise more, save money, or even repent of sin?

It is true that fear can have a powerful influence over our actions and behavior. But that influence tends to be temporary and shallow. Fear rarely has the power to change our hearts, and it will never transform us into people who love what is right and who want to obey Heavenly Father.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... r?lang=eng

I"d question his Heavenly Father part, pretty harshly, but I think he did a good job challenging fear as motivation. And it does appear to me religion plays on fears and persists or gets such hold due to the fears that Russell suggests.
Good points. The suspicious part of me wonders if his ‘demotion’ was because the bosses took this as meaning he wasn’t sufficiently scared of them!! :D
dastardly stem
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Re: God is evil, or likes it, or enjoys it whatever

Post by dastardly stem »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:44 pm
dastardly stem wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:30 pm
Given Mormonism what did God create, MG? Did he create the earth? the Universe and everything in it? Or does he exist in the universe and works within that realm?
You’re already off on a rabbit trail. 😉

Again, I’d refer you to Mosiah 4:9

I’ll put it in a larger font this time in case you missed it.

Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.”
Mosiah 4:9

Once you go beyond that…and it doesn’t take much to do so…you’re off to the races. And you might lose sight of who or what God is.

You’ve been down many rabbit trails and gone around in circles ad infinitum. Are you any closer to explaining or understanding God?

If not, where has that gotten you?

Regards,
MG
Hope you don't mind, MG. I'm going to re-respond to this. I was curious if you think God created the universe, realizing that passage says he created all things. Is the universe all things? Or what is beyond the universe? I ask because some Mormons I've spoken to have suggested God exists inside the universe and he himself along with his helpers Jehovah and Michael didn't create the universe, but the particular sphere or spheres where there people live--like earth and perhaps Earth's galaxy and if they created other habitable places in the universe they created them as well. I was asking your take on that. But whatever. I"m thinking something else now based on what you said last.

I"m assuming you think I've lost sight of who or what God is. I'm curious what you might mean by that. How have I lost sight of who or what he is, in your estimation? One of the issues unbelievers have with God is he's terribly defined. he's everything and nothing all at the same time. He loves good stuff, but he really enjoys evil things (but it's not really evil to watch people suffer or put them through suffering because he's beyond us), apparently. Anyway, your take would be much appreciated.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
dastardly stem
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Re: God is evil, or likes it, or enjoys it whatever

Post by dastardly stem »

Marcus wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:11 pm

Good points. The suspicious part of me wonders if his ‘demotion’ was because the bosses took this as meaning he wasn’t sufficiently scared of them!! :D
lol. Maybe. I figured whats-his-name Nelson didn't like his more open style.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
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malkie
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Re: God is evil, or likes it, or enjoys it whatever

Post by malkie »

dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:40 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:44 pm


You’re already off on a rabbit trail. 😉

Again, I’d refer you to Mosiah 4:9

I’ll put it in a larger font this time in case you missed it.

Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.”
Mosiah 4:9

Once you go beyond that…and it doesn’t take much to do so…you’re off to the races. And you might lose sight of who or what God is.

You’ve been down many rabbit trails and gone around in circles ad infinitum. Are you any closer to explaining or understanding God?

If not, where has that gotten you?

Regards,
MG
Hope you don't mind, MG. I'm going to re-respond to this. I was curious if you think God created the universe, realizing that passage says he created all things. Is the universe all things? Or what is beyond the universe? I ask because some Mormons I've spoken to have suggested God exists inside the universe and he himself along with his helpers Jehovah and Michael didn't create the universe, but the particular sphere or spheres where there people live--like earth and perhaps Earth's galaxy and if they created other habitable places in the universe they created them as well. I was asking your take on that. But whatever. I"m thinking something else now based on what you said last.

I"m assuming you think I've lost sight of who or what God is. I'm curious what you might mean by that. How have I lost sight of who or what he is, in your estimation? One of the issues unbelievers have with God is he's terribly defined. he's everything and nothing all at the same time. He loves good stuff, but he really enjoys evil things (but it's not really evil to watch people suffer or put them through suffering because he's beyond us), apparently. Anyway, your take would be much appreciated.
I'm going to be lazy, and not look up the scriptures, but I was taught that there are at least 3 classes of things that god did not create:
  • intelligences - they are co-eternal with god, and he started off as just one of many of them
  • matter - cannot be created nor destroyed
  • spirit(s) - it's just a "refined" form of matter
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: God is evil, or likes it, or enjoys it whatever

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Go on a date with a member of the same sex? IMMEDIATELY EXCOMMUNICATED.

**** your kid? GUESS WE’LL TAKE TWO YEARS TO FIGURE THIS MYSTERY OUT!

Hey, “Kevin”. You wanna explain how your ‘true’ organization is true again? Also, given your fixation on preserving “good things”, you wanna explain how the church’s history with child rape can’t seem to figure this one out?

- Doc
Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MG 2.0
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Re: God is evil, or likes it, or enjoys it whatever

Post by MG 2.0 »

dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:40 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:44 pm


You’re already off on a rabbit trail. 😉

Again, I’d refer you to Mosiah 4:9

I’ll put it in a larger font this time in case you missed it.

Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.”
Mosiah 4:9

Once you go beyond that…and it doesn’t take much to do so…you’re off to the races. And you might lose sight of who or what God is.

You’ve been down many rabbit trails and gone around in circles ad infinitum. Are you any closer to explaining or understanding God?

If not, where has that gotten you?

Regards,
MG
Hope you don't mind, MG. I'm going to re-respond to this. I was curious if you think God created the universe, realizing that passage says he created all things. Is the universe all things? Or what is beyond the universe? I ask because some Mormons I've spoken to have suggested God exists inside the universe and he himself along with his helpers Jehovah and Michael didn't create the universe, but the particular sphere or spheres where there people live--like earth and perhaps Earth's galaxy and if they created other habitable places in the universe they created them as well. I was asking your take on that. But whatever. I"m thinking something else now based on what you said last.

I"m assuming you think I've lost sight of who or what God is. I'm curious what you might mean by that. How have I lost sight of who or what he is, in your estimation? One of the issues unbelievers have with God is he's terribly defined. he's everything and nothing all at the same time. He loves good stuff, but he really enjoys evil things (but it's not really evil to watch people suffer or put them through suffering because he's beyond us), apparently. Anyway, your take would be much appreciated.
I take this scripture literally when it says that we cannot comprehend all the things which God can comprehend. To the best of my knowledge mankind has not been able to decipher the workings and creation of all things. Theories, yes. Big Bang? It’s now being questioned by cosmologists.

At one time it was String Theory. Now it’s multiple and/or parallel universes. And that’s being shown to have problems.

And you want me to answer your questions?

The only thing I’m willing to go out on a limb and say is that we, you and I, are part of the family of God. We are in a sense, His offspring. And that this is all that REALLY matters. If we get hung up on stuff we are not able to comprehend…as MANY have…we can lose sight of those things that matter. What matters is if a creator God exists. Period. And if so, does He have a plan? And is He able to implement and reveal that plan in whole or in parts to His ‘family’ members that have lived or will live on earth in which we are concerned with?

I’m of the opinion that you may be asking the wrong questions. You may find yourself ever learning and never coming to a knowledge of the truth that God HAS revealed and that we CAN comprehend.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Plan of Salvation.

Regards,
MG
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Rivendale
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Re: God is evil, or likes it, or enjoys it whatever

Post by Rivendale »

malkie wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:37 pm
dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:40 pm


Hope you don't mind, MG. I'm going to re-respond to this. I was curious if you think God created the universe, realizing that passage says he created all things. Is the universe all things? Or what is beyond the universe? I ask because some Mormons I've spoken to have suggested God exists inside the universe and he himself along with his helpers Jehovah and Michael didn't create the universe, but the particular sphere or spheres where there people live--like earth and perhaps Earth's galaxy and if they created other habitable places in the universe they created them as well. I was asking your take on that. But whatever. I"m thinking something else now based on what you said last.

I"m assuming you think I've lost sight of who or what God is. I'm curious what you might mean by that. How have I lost sight of who or what he is, in your estimation? One of the issues unbelievers have with God is he's terribly defined. he's everything and nothing all at the same time. He loves good stuff, but he really enjoys evil things (but it's not really evil to watch people suffer or put them through suffering because he's beyond us), apparently. Anyway, your take would be much appreciated.
I'm going to be lazy, and not look up the scriptures, but I was taught that there are at least 3 classes of things that god did not create:
  • intelligences - they are co-eternal with god, and he started off as just one of many of them
  • matter - cannot be created nor destroyed
  • spirit(s) - it's just a "refined" form of matter
If intelligences are co-eternal I often wondered how one intelligence got more intelligent than another. After all, they are both eternal. Sounds like a rigged game.
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