Confidential confession works for the truly penitent child sex abusers

[Philo Sofee]

Here here, Marcus. I’m so disgusted by this one that I can’t really separate the people from the organization any more. Something got rewired in me, and now I hold the individuals accountable for this - if they stay in that cult that means they’re ok with this.

Funny how so many of these people believe groomers are everywhere, but it’s literally in their own house of worship. I’m so over saying and thinking the individuals are great, bUt iT’s ThE iNsTiTuTiOn that needs mending.

No! No more!

It’s the people that aren’t ok, otherwise they’d have left by now or have changed the institution to reflect their values. Period! It’s the people that comprise, aid, and abet this bull****.

They’re one and the same.

- Doc

This is signally and profoundly deep truth. No more do we give a pass when the people KNOW it is happening, and yet continue supporting the heinous option which leads to heinous immorality. The people are sick with brainwash as well as the wicked institution who does so for control. Mormonism IS the Matrix. I will be talking about that tonight in my live session at 6 p.m.

[drumdude]

Daniel just asserted today that the reason Mormonism is failing to grow is because Mormons aren’t being exposed to the full depth of Mormonism.


My response is that people are leaving precisely because they dig deep into these issues and aren’t buying the shallow callous PR statements. Mormonism viewed in its complete full depth is just horrifying.

[Philo Sofee]

Daniel just asserted today that the reason Mormonism is failing to grow is because Mormons aren’t being exposed to the full depth of Mormonism.


My response is that people are leaving precisely because they dig deep into these issues and aren’t buying the shallow callous PR statements. Mormonism viewed in its complete full depth is just horrifying.

Peterson has proven to me at least that he is willing to lie, distort, and defend Mormonism at all costs. His credibility isn't worth a plug nickel. Were he to personally testify to me I would simply say "BS."

If they are not exposed to the depth of Mormonism, that dog lies directly on the feet of those who help write the manuals (hint, hint Daniel) who follow the directions of those who control the writers (hint, hint Daniel). Both parties are the problem, not the solution. Daniel Peterson has confessed publicly he thinks the manuals are worthless, yet he continued to help produce them. Daniel is a cowardly hypocrite. He didn't add any depth to what he was writing. Why? Because he would have got into trouble. Why? Because his controllers would have had the last word. Daniel C. Peterson KNOWS this. Yet all he does is cast the blame for shallowness on the crowd. Daniel C. Peterson is part of the problem, not the solution. The truly bizarre thing about this is he knows this as well.
But most amazingly enough, Daniel has been blogging now for years... y-e-a-r-s and continues in the vain of shallow, meaningless depthless Mormonism. He KNOWS there is a problem, yet contributes exactly nothing about it, and allows all his commenters on his brain dead shallow blog to be the same shallow, cowardly clops of clunk he himself has become. So let him lament. So long as he does not lead the way in showing what is needed by producing what is needed, he is the problem, not the solution. And he knows that. He freely chooses to continue letting the cess pool of shallow Mormonism dominate. That is because he enjoys its stench. Their sh*t doesn't stink to one who has had his head up their ass his entire life.

[drumdude]

Daniel just asserted today that the reason Mormonism is failing to grow is because Mormons aren’t being exposed to the full depth of Mormonism.


My response is that people are leaving precisely because they dig deep into these issues and aren’t buying the shallow callous PR statements. Mormonism viewed in its complete full depth is just horrifying.

Peterson has proven to me at least that he is willing to lie, distort, and defend Mormonism at all costs. His credibility isn't worth a plug nickel. Were he to personally testify to me I would simply say "B.S.."

If they are not exposed to the depth of Mormonism, that dog lies directly on the feet of those who help write the manuals (hint, hint Daniel) who follow the directions of those who control the writers (hint, hint Daniel). Both parties are the problem, not the solution. Daniel Peterson has confessed publicly he thinks the manuals are worthless, yet he continued to help produce them. Daniel is a cowardly hypocrite. He didn't add any depth to what he was writing. Why? Because he would have got into trouble. Why? Because his controllers would have had the last word. Daniel C. Peterson KNOWS this. Yet all he does is cast the blame for shallowness on the crowd. Daniel C. Peterson is part of the problem, not the solution. The truly bizarre thing about this is he knows this as well.
But most amazingly enough, Daniel has been blogging now for years... y-e-a-r-s and continues in the vain of shallow, meaningless depthless Mormonism. He KNOWS there is a problem, yet contributes exactly nothing about it, and allows all his commenters on his brain dead shallow blog to be the same shallow, cowardly clops of clunk he himself has become. So let him lament. So long as he does not lead the way in showing what is needed by producing what is needed, he is the problem, not the solution. And he knows that. He freely chooses to continue letting the cess pool of shallow Mormonism dominate. That is because he enjoys its stench. Their sh*t doesn't stink to one who has had his head up their ass his entire life.

I've slowly come to realize and accept that Daniel never engages with anything deeply, you're exactly right that it's always superficial with some attention grabbing troll that gets people to engage with his recycled sh*t-posts.

I have seen some evidence that faithful Mormons are very rattled by this sex abuse scandal, regardless of the spin that Daniel and others are trying to put on it. It gives me hope that most Mormons aren't so cynical as Dan and actually want to acknowledge and fix the problem to help children. And not use them as pawns in a misguided religious freedom fight.

[Dr Moore]

Personally, I am inclined to strongly disagree with the blithe dismissal of calls for mandatory reporting for Bishops and lay church leaders. That equation is, I suspect, far more complex than a single variable (the abuser's decision to confess or not). For example, if everyone knows that the Bishop is a 100% required reporter, that becomes a potentially 100% safe place for women, children, friends and extended family to report abuse "anonymously" and be assured of proper legal action without fear of social reprisal.

But I don't know enough about the data to respond with actual data to the pushback that mandatory reporting will stifle confessions and make the problem worse. I highly doubt it would make the problem worse, but that is largely based on seeing secular institutions mandate reporting for certain front-line workers, and the nonlinear complexity I outlined above. I suspect as domain experts begin to weigh in with data, we'll all learn something new.

But I'll just say this again. Jesus is the supposed architect of the church, whose "hand" members can "see" decades after the fact in miracle revelations such as anti-tobacco and family home evening.

So then, did Jesus architect a system in which child abuse outcomes are no better than average? I think that question is going to break a lot of shelves. Foot stamping denial PR statements will only make it worse. Penitence is needed in abundance, and church leaders so far have offered none.

[malkie]

Personally, I am inclined to strongly disagree with the blithe dismissal of calls for mandatory reporting for Bishops and lay church leaders. That equation is, I suspect, far more complex than a single variable (the abuser's decision to confess or not). For example, if everyone knows that the Bishop is a 100% required reporter, that becomes a potentially 100% safe place for women, children, friends and extended family to report abuse "anonymously" and be assured of proper legal action without fear of social reprisal.

But I don't know enough about the data to respond with actual data to the pushback that mandatory reporting will stifle confessions and make the problem worse. I highly doubt it would make the problem worse, but that is largely based on seeing secular institutions mandate reporting for certain front-line workers, and the nonlinear complexity I outlined above. I suspect as domain experts begin to weigh in with data, we'll all learn something new.

But I'll just say this again. Jesus is the supposed architect of the church, whose "hand" members can "see" decades after the fact in miracle revelations such as anti-tobacco and family home evening.

So then, did Jesus architect a system in which child abuse outcomes are no better than average? I think that question is going to break a lot of shelves. Foot stamping denial PR statements will only make it worse. Penitence is needed in abundance, and church leaders so far have offered none.

It may not always be a black-and-white situation on the side of the abused, either.

I am in a profession in which, under certain circumstances, I and my colleagues may be mandatory reporters.

A few years ago someone came to talk to me confidentially about a situation they were in, and wanted me to assure them, before telling me any details, that for this particular interaction I would not be a mandatory reporter.

I gave the true assurance that I was not, and then listened to a story that horrified and disgusted me about the abuse this person was suffering. I was distressed by the fact that my hands were tied because of the circumstances, but thankfully was able to refer the person to a professional counselor.

If I had been a mandatory reporter under these circumstances, the person would not have talked to me about their situation, and I would not have had the opportunity to refer them to counseling.

[Dr Exiled]

The goal ought to be stopping the abuse. Abusers need to be away from victims and potential victims and prison time is the only way to ensure that. Churches cannot do that. Also, recidivism is big in the pedophile community. So, what are the chances actually for true repentance? Further Bishop Jones, a contractor, doctor, lawyer, etc., may not be the best at evaluating the situation. Sometimes (all the time - who are we kidding) the "spirit" doesn't work. It's clear that the Catholics, Mormons, and other religions have an overriding tendency to cover things up and hiding behind priest/penitent privilege is more of the cover-up bs that got us to where we are now. So sorry church, you had your chance and failed miserably. There should be mandatory reporting and active searches throughout congregations to root this problem out. Finally, churches are clearly free to exercise their religious freedom after the pedophile gets out of prison. Perhaps have church psychologists and therapists to help the pedophile transition back to some sort of normal life. Living as a sex offender is not easy and a strong church community could take them in with open arms post prison and use that amazing religious freedom to perhaps cure them?

[drumdude]

The ridiculous belief system that Mormonism has requires Bishops to mistakenly believe they have supernatural powers to be able to tell the truth about abuse claims, to know when a victim is lying, and to know when a child molester has changed his ways and will molest no more.

These aren't just your normal stupid Mormon beliefs, these beliefs have incredibly dangerous consequences for children. And the church would rather throw children under the bus than throw the theological idea that Bishops have a gift of discernment under the bus.

[Rivendale]

The ridiculous belief system that Mormonism has requires Bishops to mistakenly believe they have supernatural powers to be able to tell the truth about abuse claims, to know when a victim is lying, and to know when a child molester has changed his ways and will molest no more.

These aren't just your normal stupid Mormon beliefs, these beliefs have incredibly dangerous consequences for children. And the church would rather throw children under the bus than throw the theological idea that Bishops have a gift of discernment under the bus.

The "clean slate" or atonement has their hands tied. That is what the structure of religion does. It is its sole purpose to redeem people. Even at the expense of an infant.