DiscussMormonism.com

I'll start with an example that I'm sure a ton of Mormons also have first-hand experience with. My fiancé and I had sex before we were sealed in the temple. Scandalous, I know. Of course I had a little trepidation about the interview which was required before we got permission to be sealed. She and I had not explicitly said that we would lie to the bishop and stake president. But I assume that she had the same idea I did - that our sex life was none of their business. We were married in the temple with no one the wiser.

Why didn't our church leaders discover our deception? Were our Satanic powers too much for them to overcome? Maybe both men had been masturbating recently and had lost their gift.

I think the answer is much more mundane. Mormon leaders do not have any supernatural gift of discernment. Because it doesn't exist.

Any of you have similar first-hand experiences with church leaders?

I have a child hood friend that is in the church just for his wife. He served on many High Councils for over 25 years. Problem? Each year when March madness starts with college basketball he would go with his lawyer friend to Vegas for the weekend. And they didn't drink postum. Next Sunday and the subsequent worthiness interviews they failed to detect any of that. For decades. No supernatural super powers in that group.

Rivendale wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:44 pm

I have a child hood friend that is in the church just for his wife. He served on many High Councils for over 25 years. Problem? Each year when March madness starts with college basketball he would go with his lawyer friend to Vegas for the weekend. And they didn't drink postum. Next Sunday and the subsequent worthiness interviews they failed to detect any of that. For decades. No supernatural super powers in that group.

The apologetic response will of course be "they don't have the power to be 100% correct in every case."

All you have to do in that case is show them Mark Hoffman and the Arizona sex abuse case. When it really, really matters, the power still doesn't exist.

How can any 'church' leaders have any special powers of discernment when the 'church' itself is a fraud and founded by one of the biggest con-men that ever lived in the United States next to L. Ron Hubbard? It's obvious no man in the 'church' has any special gift of discernment or likewise, including Russell M. Nelson himself (he has a special gaffe all to himself for that November, 2015 policy that he called 'revelation' which was repealed 2 1/2 years later because of public outrage and backlash and called it 'revelation' again, LOL)! Probably the most embarrassing and glaring example of it was Mark Hoffman duping the FP and Q12 out of millions for fake/forged documents in 1983. Even just recently, there have been countless stories in the local media (even on KSL's on website) about Bishops, SP's and even Mission Presidents being arrested for all sorts of crimes ranging from child trafficking and sexual abuse to Ponzi schemes and swindling members out of their money. Yep, God called those men to positions of power so they could abuse others. But I think they may have all just been trying to be more like dear Bro. Joseph since that was his modus operandi. Discernment exists only in their minds.

drumdude wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:19 pm

Why didn't our church leaders discover our deception?

Discernment does not imply mind reading.

Mormon leaders do not have any supernatural gift of discernment. Because it doesn't exist.

Discernment is a perfectly good concept if used commonly. Remove any imbued supernatural nature to discernment, and thoughts that decision-makers cannot be fooled. Think of it as wise decision-making based on what is known and that the decisions require reassessment as new data becomes available. Because some levels of decision-making in the LDS Church are by men who believe their judgments are infallible, reassessing decisions when new information becomes available, may not be an option.

That's the obvious way to run an organization. But it's not compatible with Mormon theology. They are never going to throw the idea that they have "spiritual eyes" away.

Stephen L Richards wrote:First, I mention the gift of discernment, embodying the power to discriminate . . . between right and wrong. I believe that this gift when highly developed arises largely out of an acute sensitivity to impressions—spiritual impressions, if you will—to read under the surface as it were, to detect hidden evil... We ought to be grateful every day of our lives for this sense which keeps alive a conscience which constantly alerts us to the dangers inherent in wrongdoers and sin

Sister Bednar's Husband wrote:discernment helps us detect hidden error and evil in others.

Sister Bednar's Husband wrote:The gift of discernment opens to us vistas that stretch far beyond what can be seen with natural eyes or heard with natural ears. Discerning is seeing with spiritual eyes

Lesson 23 on Conducting Interviews wrote: Interviews also require special preparation. An interview can accomplish many purposes. It can be used to (1) gather information, (2) deliver information, (3) counsel and motivate, (4) call people to positions, (5) receive reports of stewardships, (6) teach principles and doctrine, or (7) determine worthiness. Because leaders frequently conduct interviews, we should know some basic principles for conducting Church interviews:

Pray to have the Spirit and the power of discernment during the interviews.

drumdude wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:08 pm

That's the obvious way to run an organization. But it's not compatible with Mormon theology. They are never going to throw the idea that they have "spiritual eyes" :$piritual Eye$ away.

(fixed it for ya bud....)

Philo Sofee wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:36 am

drumdude wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:08 pm

That's the obvious way to run an organization. But it's not compatible with Mormon theology. They are never going to throw the idea that they have "spiritual eyes" :$piritual Eye$ away.

(fixed it for ya bud....)

The church's lesson even had the words "profitable meeting" in it:

The purpose of the Church is to bring souls to Christ, and meetings and interviews can help us do this. Meaningful and profitable meetings and interviews, however, do not just happen. They must be planned, conducted, and evaluated with specific purposes in mind.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

drumdude wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:02 am

The church's lesson even had the words "profitable meeting" in it:

The purpose of the Church is to bring souls to Christ, and meetings and interviews can help us do this. Meaningful and profitable meetings and interviews, however, do not just happen. They must be planned, conducted, and evaluated with specific purposes in mind.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

Great catch!

In other news, water is wet.