How do you dovetail this with your current position that the church isn’t true?
Oh come on man. People all over the world have visionary experiences by blessed beings of other realms who make appearances. My circumstances were not unique and not necessarily a confirmation that the church is true. Not at all. It was however, a confirmation that what I was doing in life was what I needed to be doing in order to accomplish what it was I needed to experience in life to fill the measure of my own creation and choices. It may interest to know that I have a thread in the celestial forum, God, the Meaning of Life, that explains all of that and it's rather long but I've been able to figure things out for myself, and guess what? There is so much more than boring Mormonism which is just a stepping stone or an experience that some people need to experience what it is they really want in life.
At the time of your experience how did you interpret it? Did you see it as a confirmation of your current beliefs at that point in time in the validity of the truth claims of the Church?
It’s interesting how these spiritual experiences can morph from one thing to another.
Something that has a particular meaning (purpose?) can then change/evolve and do a total 180.
At the time of your experience how did you interpret it? Did you see it as a confirmation of your current beliefs at that point in time in the validity of the truth claims of the Church?
It’s interesting how these spiritual experiences can morph from one thing to another.
Something that has a particular meaning (purpose?) can then change/evolve and do a total 180.
Regards,
MG
I suppose I did see it at as a confirmation of truth claims at the time. Sure, why not? I mean come on man! The room was as bright as day and it was the middle of the night.
My companion (we were also companions in the MTC) was rather eccentric and I rather disliked him so it seemed somewhat peculiar that we would be granted a special privilege in having a heavenly encounter in which beings were able to pass through the veil and make themselves known. What did we do to deserve that? By the time our companionship was changed we were hardly speaking to each other.
And yes, it was a spiritual experience -- That's for damn sure! I can't deny that. It was what it was and everything happens for a reason. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that other missionaries have had similar experiences.
At the time of your experience how did you interpret it? Did you see it as a confirmation of your current beliefs at that point in time in the validity of the truth claims of the Church?
It’s interesting how these spiritual experiences can morph from one thing to another.
Something that has a particular meaning (purpose?) can then change/evolve and do a total 180.
Regards,
MG
I suppose I did see it at as a confirmation of truth claims at the time. Sure, why not? I mean come on man! The room was as bright as day and it was the middle of the night.
My companion (we were also companions in the MTC) was rather eccentric and I rather disliked him so it seemed somewhat peculiar that we would be granted a special privilege in having a heavenly encounter in which beings were able to pass through the veil and make themselves known. What did we do to deserve that? By the time our companionship was changed we were hardly speaking to each other.
And yes, it was a spiritual experience -- That's for damn sure! I can't deny that. It was what it was and everything happens for a reason. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that other missionaries have had similar experiences.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts/feelings, Shulem.
It wouldn't surprise me to learn that other missionaries have had similar experiences.
I can respect your reported experience without understanding it.
My most spiritual experience as a missionary was realizing it was all made up. Imagine looking up the French word for “disillusioned”. In your greenie town.
This subject caught enough of my curiosity to cause me to reflect. I think the possible available entheogens would be mushrooms and possibly morning glory. Mushrooms more effective and thus most likely. I am fairly sure things like peyote would be unavailable.Would the knowledge for use of these be available? Amanita Muscaria , those red with white spots mushrooms of common illustration may be the easiest to identify of all mushrooms. They are harsh at best in consumption (somewhat toxic) and of different active chemical composition than the psilocybin mushrooms. The psilocybin mushrooms are a much better candidate for controlled spiritual and visionary experience.
I have not tried to hunt psilocybin mushrooms. I can see they are fairly identifiable by reviewing information about them . A liberty cap has a pretty distinctive appearance but I have seen notes about similar looking mushrooms of a poisonous nature. Collecting these things would require knowledge even though they would be available in the area Joseph lived. I do not think this knowledge would be the common stuff of farming folks. For a bit of time long ago I tried learning about mushrooms for eating. I got a book about how to identify and found that college campus had some easily identified edible species popping up. Fried they were quite tasty. I waited nervously for a day to see if I got ill. (Probably being overly cautious or fearful). I then went out into the woods and gathered a large bag of different mushrooms to try and identify. I was unable to identify any of them. The world is full of a huge variety of mushrooms and learning about them is a large project. I know what a destroying angel looks like .I have seen one, it is the most beautiful mushroom.
I did not mean to be all morbid with my last thought though it illustrates a touch of paranoia I have about mushrooms. I do eat some from the grocery story from time to time.
I remember a fellow , Walters I believe is the name is mentioned as having some esoteric perhaps magical interest and knowledge had some connection to Joseph Smith. I believe Kishkumen has mentioned that and the you tube discussion brought him up as a possible source of knowledge of psilocybin mushroom. It has been a long time since I read Mormonism and the Magic World View.(hope I an mot misremembering the title). There is an impressive amount of contact points that the book brings up. I have heard that information discussed as ephemeral attachments to a basically Christian literal understanding. When I read the book the possibility crossed my mind that Joseph held a priority to some esoteric magic world view where the ideas of god Jesus atonement etc were outside images which might lead a person to a more esoteric spiritual knowledge. If the magic dimensions were the outside attachments then I could not imagine using mushrooms for sacrament. However if the priority is the other way around it would seem congruent and plausible that entheogens were used
I did not mean to be all morbid with my last thought though it illustrates a touch of paranoia I have about mushrooms. I do eat some from the grocery story from time to time.
I remember a fellow , Walters I believe is the name is mentioned as having some esoteric perhaps magical interest and knowledge had some connection to Joseph Smith. I believe Kishkumen has mentioned that and the you tube discussion brought him up as a possible source of knowledge of psilocybin mushroom. It has been a long time since I read Mormonism and the Magic World View.(hope I an mot misremembering the title). There is an impressive amount of contact points that the book brings up. I have heard that information discussed as ephemeral attachments to a basically Christian literal understanding. When I read the book the possibility crossed my mind that Joseph held a priority to some esoteric magic world view where the ideas of god Jesus atonement etc were outside images which might lead a person to a more esoteric spiritual knowledge. If the magic dimensions were the outside attachments then I could not imagine using mushrooms for sacrament. However if the priority is the other way around it would seem congruent and plausible that entheogens were used
Yes, this is all reasonable as I discovered in the article and produced my series on the concept in my Live sessions... The entheogenic sacrament was not unique to Joseph Smith, but has actually been traced back into the Medieval alchemical times on into earlier Christianity with the Last Supper, and then even earlier into the Eleusinian mysteries. And it goes even into earlier times into the ancient Egyptian religions... I mean, what a concept.
I remember a fellow , Walters I believe is the name is mentioned as having some esoteric perhaps magical interest and knowledge had some connection to Joseph Smith. I believe Kishkumen has mentioned that and the you tube discussion brought him up as a possible source of knowledge of psilocybin mushroom. It has been a long time since I read Mormonism and the Magic World View.
I would think that Luman Walters certainly had a very strong influence on Joseph Smith. Perhaps Luman gave Joseph his first hit of acid and a steady supply to keep him high and under his thumb. This would have given Joseph exactly what he needed to see Jesus appear to him in the sacred grove after having eaten mushroom. It was a wow man experience. Wow man, it's the Lord!
Joseph, Joseph, I am the Lord, look at me and behold my glory. Look at the light!
The psilocybin mushrooms are a much better candidate for controlled spiritual and visionary experience.
And there were plenty of them in Joseph Smith's neck of the woods. All you have to do is pick them and partake. Then you too, can see Jesus! Amazing, isn't it?
Psychedelic Spotlight wrote:Psychonauts living in the Midwest or North-East, never fear – the analysis also showed the corridor from Ohio up through Pennsylvania, New York, and Vermont is rich in psilocybin mushrooms. It found: “High rates of Psilocybe caerulipes [were] spotted in Ashland County, Ohio; Warren County, Pennsylvania; Cattaraugus County, New York; and Washington County, Vermont.
