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Re: A gem from Russell Nelson's 98th birthday celebration
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:50 pm
by Philo Sofee
MetaProf wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:53 am
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:23 am
For one thing, there needs to be a strong central authority…stable and sure…to stand up against the winds produced/manufactured by dissidents and apostates who are ever hammering against the bulwarks of the kingdom.
Needing a strong central authority is basic authoritarianism 101. And no reason “there needs to be” one.
Also Jesus was a dissident. Had a sort of hammering tendency himself. Is your principle that dissidence against central authority is always bad or only when it’s against your preferred status quo?
Indeed! Very, very well put. Jesus refutes Mg's philosophy of men mingled with scripture hands down!
Re: A gem from Russell Nelson's 98th birthday celebration
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:07 pm
by Dr Moore
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:23 am
...there needs to be a strong central authority…stable and sure…
LOL yup. Nelson’s only strength is that which members ascribe to him.
Re: A gem from Russell Nelson's 98th birthday celebration
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:30 pm
by BeNotDeceived
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:51 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:48 pm
At this point, what I'm trying to figure out is why they continue with the charade when they don't need tithepayers anymore? Why try to continue getting people to join and/or believe in the religion if you don't need members' money???
Maybe because it isn’t about the money?
Regards,
MG
MG, the religion is a fraud and so it ain't about bringing souls to Christ. The 'church' has amassed hundreds of billions of dollars unbeknownst to 99% of the membership but somehow they're not interested in money? Come on! They (FP, Q12 and 70) all have a vested interest in keeping the charade going for themselves and their families financially. Much has come to light in recent years exposing Smith's concocted religion as a fraud and Smith as a complete charlatan, interested only in monetary gain, women and self-glorification. If I may ask, have you at least read the 'church's' essays which are buried on its website?
Re: A gem from Russell Nelson's 98th birthday celebration
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:47 am
by Gabriel
Gadianton wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:26 pm
Furthermore, it was impressed upon my mind that his name should be Russell Marion Nelson, Jr.
Oh good lord. Of course you knew from the first paragraph that somehow this was all about celebrating him, but God likes to switch it up and make it a surprise, how would the tin man be delighted this time?
Here's a snippet from the baby blessing (pg 265-266):
Russell M. Nelson wrote:
On March 31, 1972, our son was born! Today, in the Yale Ward chapel, I had the great privilege of giving him a name and a blessing. This is what was said:
...
'My son, as we now share the same name, may we share a desire each to honor the name the other possesses'.
IE. the name that is above every name.
Dr Moore wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:12 pm
Post hoc, language used describing the revelation of junior’s name is stronger than any Russell’s counselors recall as re his role of PSR. Go figure.
In my opinion, post hoc revelations are Nelson's specialty. But even the revelation of Junior's name is somewhat sketchy:
Russell M. Nelson wrote: In the middle of the night I was awakened with a very real experience. I cannot remember who gave the message—that is of no importance. But I do remember as surely as I live that it was announced to me that this time Dantzel’s pregnancy was with a son, he who had been appearing to her through the years. Furthermore, it was impressed upon my mind that his name should be Russell Marion Nelson, Jr.
Surprisingly, Russell can't seem to remember who gave him the message(?) Criminy, how many options are there?! Was it the Lord? The Angel Gabriel? Brother Joseph? Lucifer? The ghost of Narcissus? -- Oh well, at least we have it on Nelson's authority that such things are of no importance. And Russell remembers it as surely as he lives.
Re: A gem from Russell Nelson's 98th birthday celebration
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:24 am
by huckelberry
BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:30 pm
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:51 pm
Maybe because it isn’t about the money?
Regards,
MG
MG, the religion is a fraud and so it ain't about bringing souls to Christ. The 'church' has amassed hundreds of billions of dollars unbeknownst to 99% of the membership but somehow they're not interested in money? Come on! They (FP, Q12 and 70) all have a vested interest in keeping the charade going for themselves and their families financially. Much has come to light in recent years exposing Smith's concocted religion as a fraud and Smith as a complete charlatan, interested only in monetary gain, women and self-glorification. If I may ask, have you at least read the 'church's' essays which are buried on its website?
Be not deceived,
Back in the 1930s and 40s there were quite a few people who saw Joseph Smith as you describe. There were also people who did not see him that way at all. Is there anything which has changed? What sort of thing has come to light? I suspect even though people here sometimes find MG frustrating and annoying he does not seem ignorant of the lay of the land.
Re: A gem from Russell Nelson's 98th birthday celebration
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:34 am
by malkie
Gabriel wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:47 am
...
Surprisingly, Russell can't seem to remember who gave him the message(?) Criminy, how many options are there?! Was it the Lord? The Angel Gabriel? Brother Joseph? Lucifer? The ghost of Narcissus? -- Oh well, at least we have it on Nelson's authority that such things are of no importance. And Russell remembers it as surely as he lives.
Isn't one of these options within your power to resolve?
Re: A gem from Russell Nelson's 98th birthday celebration
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:40 am
by Gabriel
malkie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:34 am
Gabriel wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:47 am
...
Surprisingly, Russell can't seem to remember who gave him the message(?) Criminy, how many options are there?! Was it the Lord? The Angel Gabriel? Brother Joseph? Lucifer? The ghost of Narcissus? -- Oh well, at least we have it on Nelson's authority that such things are of no importance. And Russell remembers it as surely as he lives.
Isn't one of these options within your power to resolve?
As regards the matter of Jr's annunciation, I informed everyone at the council that if nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve. I hope that answers your question.
Re: A gem from Russell Nelson's 98th birthday celebration
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:48 am
by IHAQ
Dr Moore wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:12 pm
Post hoc,
language used describing the revelation of junior’s name is stronger than any Russell’s counselors recall as re his role of PSR. Go figure.
How do you know that?
Re: A gem from Russell Nelson's 98th birthday celebration
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:41 pm
by Gadianton
Gabriel wrote:Surprisingly, Russell can't seem to remember who gave him the message(?) Criminy, how many options are there?!
You know, this is a fantastic point. Anybody who receives a message from a heavenly messenger in a vision is going to remember who it was.
Re: A gem from Russell Nelson's 98th birthday celebration
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:17 pm
by Dr Moore
IHAQ wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:48 am
Dr Moore wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:12 pm
Post hoc,
language used describing the revelation of junior’s name is stronger than any Russell’s counselors recall as re his role of PSR. Go figure.
How do you know that?
Compare the uselessly flimsy language Eyring's first hand account in the OP...
President Henry B. Eyring, Second Counselor, expressed his thoughts about President Nelson’s role as the Lord’s prophet. “Every time we walk out of the office, President Oaks and I say, ‘It happened again.’ You’ll just see revelation come. You’ll see him ask for counsel, and then the decision will come and everybody in the room knows it is right and from God. He just quietly says, ‘I think this is what the Lord would want us to do.’ It’s just time after time.”
...with Gabriel's citation upthread -- Nelson's strong affirmative statement about the revelation to pass his name on to Russell M. Nelson Jr.
Russell M. Nelson wrote:
On January 22, 1972, I was in Sun Valley, Idaho, speaking at a meeting of the Idaho Heart Association. I was given a very lovely room in the Sun Valley Lodge—a fire in the fireplace and all that went with it. All alone in that room, I retired for the evening. In the middle of the night I was awakened with a very real experience. I cannot remember who gave the message—that is of no importance. But I do remember as surely as I live that it was announced to me that this time Dantzel’s pregnancy was with a son, he who had been appearing to her through the years. Furthermore, it was impressed upon my mind that his name should be Russell Marion Nelson, Jr.
I think Nelson's modus operandi is to edit himself after the fact. He expresses maximum conviction only on reflection, once results are known. In the moment, as described by others, he comes across rather scared and cowardly.