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At times I get up in Fast and Testimony Meetings and say, among other things, that I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. By that I don't mean that I have a step by step proof from known axioms to my conclusion about the LDS Church. Rather I mean that I have a very strong hunch that that conclusion is correct. I have talked a little about this on other threads. It's obvious to me that human beings (and all other forms of life?) are non-deterministic, and it's also obvious that non-determinism cannot arise out of a completely deterministic universe, so I have concluded that someone, or some group of beings, with free will has/have existed since the moment of the Big Bang. Some posters have pointed out that at the quantum level the entire universe is non-deterministic, and that that might be the source of non-determinism in living things. That seems to be an argument that life is simply the manifestation at the macroscopic level of the non-determinism that exists at the microscopic level. At any rate I don't buy that argument. There are reasons why other macroscopic entities follow rigid deterministic laws, and I really doubt that there's some reason non-determinism from quantum objects can survive in living objects but not in a large boulder or a slowly moving glacier. Anyhow, my hunch tells me that being or group of beings that has existed since the Big Bang could very possibly be God and, as I've also posted in other threads, I asked that God if the LDS Church is true, and the only answer I got was yes. That is why I say that I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true.

When you say you got an answer, you mean you got a warm fuzzy feeling after thinking about it?

drumdude wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:04 am

When you say you got an answer, you mean you got a warm fuzzy feeling after thinking about it?

Drumdude, I threw myself at God in total desperation; I think that's significantly more than "thinking about it." And I felt a rushing, shivering sensation that coursed through my whole body; that was significantly more than "a warm fuzzy feeling."

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:01 am

At times I get up in Fast and Testimony Meetings and say, among other things, that I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. By that I don't mean that I have a step by step proof from known axioms to my conclusion about the LDS Church. Rather I mean that I have a very strong hunch that that conclusion is correct.

So when you get up in F&T meeting and say you "know the COCJOLDS is true" you're misleading people. The Church defines that as lying.

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:11 am

drumdude wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:04 am

When you say you got an answer, you mean you got a warm fuzzy feeling after thinking about it?

Drumdude, I threw myself at God in total desperation; I think that's significantly more than "thinking about it." And I felt a rushing, shivering sensation that coursed through my whole body; that was significantly more than "a warm fuzzy feeling."

Are you open to the possibility that the human brain is capable of generating these experiences on its' own without the assumption that God was involved?

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:01 am

I asked that God if the LDS Church is true, and the only answer I got was yes.

Questions:

(a) How do you know you were 'asking God' and getting an answer from God?

... Which question subdivides into:

(i) How do you know that is was the thing you call 'God' that answered you, rather than something else, including your own brain?

(ii) How do you know that thing thing you call 'God' is there at all, whether he/it answered you or not?

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:11 am

Drumdude, I threw myself at God in total desperation...

Elder Packer:

Be ever on guard lest you be deceived by inspiration from an unworthy source. You can be given false spiritual messages. There are counterfeit spirits just as there are counterfeit angels. (See Moro. 7:17.) Be careful lest you be deceived, for the devil may come disguised as an angel of light.

The spiritual part of us and the emotional part of us are so closely linked that is possible to mistake an emotional impulse for something spiritual. We occasionally find people who receive what they assume to be spiritual promptings from God, when those promptings are either centered in the emotions or are from the adversary.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... d?lang=eng
Given the total desperation you felt, it is more than likely you've mistaken an emotional impulse for something spiritual.

drumdude wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:39 am

Are you open to the possibility that the human brain is capable of generating these experiences on its' own without the assumption that God was involved?

Good point relevant to things and stuff at march8miracle.org

Whose brain generated those things at those exact times?

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:01 am

At times I get up in Fast and Testimony Meetings and say, among other things, that I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. By that I don't mean that I have a step by step proof from known axioms to my conclusion about the LDS Church. Rather I mean that I have a very strong hunch that that conclusion is correct.

Rather than deceive people by saying something other than what you mean, have some integrity and say what you mean: That you have a very strong hunch that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true.

What you've been doing is straight-up lying.

Dr. Shades wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:24 am

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:01 am

At times I get up in Fast and Testimony Meetings and say, among other things, that I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. By that I don't mean that I have a step by step proof from known axioms to my conclusion about the LDS Church. Rather I mean that I have a very strong hunch that that conclusion is correct.

Rather than deceive people by saying something other than what you mean, have some integrity and say what you mean: That you have a very strong hunch that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true.

What you've been doing is straight-up lying.

Many years ago, the Oxford philosopher A.J. Ayer wrote a paper entitled 'Knowing as Having the Right to be Sure'. Whether or not one agrees in all respects with Ayer's analysis of how the word 'know' is used and understood', I think most people who hear the claim 'I know X' will in general feel entitled to respond by asking:

"How do you know X?"

If you respond by simply saying:

"I have a very strong hunch that X is true"

... most people will, I think, feel that you have let them down somewhat.