Happy Sunday

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MG 2.0
God
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by MG 2.0 »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:47 pm
malkie wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:26 am
Personal observation, for what it's worth. Apologies in advance for the derail.

I made a point of contacting MG about 8 years ago when I was driving close to where he lived. (I lived about 2800 miles away, and was on a road trip to visit family.)

He graciously agreed to take some time out of his day for a chat with my wife and me. My impression at the time was that he was a decent guy who happened to largely disagree with me about the LDS church. We talked for about 20-30 minutes without any nastiness or belligerence on either side, and parted (I believe) on good terms.

Back then, on this board, I believe that he earned his moniker of "Mental Gymnast" for his tortured logic in defense of the church, but his posts were generally pleasant in tone - more so than some of mine.

It has saddened me to see how (from my PoV) he has changed since then. Perhaps it is the taking up of his musket that has made the change - I don't know - but there is now a bitterness and often nastiness that I don't think was there in his previous comments.

This is a big part of why I usually do not engage with him - I have no interest in having such unpleasant language directed at me.
Thanks for adding that, malkie. It is good to know from your personal experience what I suspected to be true is in fact the case: MG is a decent person who is behaving badly because of his commitment to the LDS Church. I would like the think that the LDS Church actually doesn't want its members to behave in this way. And I would like to think that MG is not the person he portrays himself to be here.

I am pretty confident I am right in both cases.
Taking up the musket. Well, that may be so. I am a defender of the faith. Maybe more so than I was eight years ago. And from the point of view of a critic that might come across as “unpleasant language”. I would challenge anyone to show that I am in any way the purveyor of a consistent stream of vitriol and/or invective towards anyone on this board. Sure, if I see that I am figuratively being spit upon I will take notice and challenge someone for behaving badly. But that is simply self preservation and defense of my good name. I will not bow down to innuendo and false accusations.

I find your choice of words interesting. “ MG is a decent person who is behaving badly because of his commitment to the LDS Church.”

Why in the world would I be a “decent person” who then doesn’t have enough self awareness to take that same person into my conversations on a public message board? I wouldn’t do that. I’m the same person here that I am when not posting here. The difference is in real life I’m not around those that have a jaundiced view of the LDS Church. This view, of course, is by nature going to influence their (your) views towards those that have the gall to disagree strongly with an atheistic/agnostic world view and state publically over and over again that this worldview is mistaken…from the vantage point of believers. That I would then post what I believe to be valid points and reasons for ‘keeping the faith’ even when knowing the issues put out there by the critics, takes things up a notch and adds fuel to the fire.

And then I keep coming back. 😄

I can see why that really gets under the skin of some folks.

But that doesn’t make me a decent person behaving badly. It’s simply that I’m a decent person defending the faith and trying to be civil while doing so. But I don’t suffer fools gladly as the saying goes. If someone or a group of people unfairly criticize the church or its leaders I will call them out.

I’m sure that is not appreciated.

Of course, the things that critics say they say they (you) say believing that they’re in the right. Of course. And you and others see yourselves as ‘defending the faith’ of secularism and/or disbelief in a benevolent God. I take issue with that (as I did just yesterday with stem on another thread), and folks (like Doc, Marcus, Wang Chung, etc.) go ballistic with innuendo, ad hominem, straw men, picture memes, and whatever else they can come up with to shut me up and cancel me.

And it hasn’t worked.

I’m not sure that there is a sure fire solution. Two contradictory world views hang in the balance. Friction is the result. Honestly, I try to remain as civil as possible. But when I observe posts like yours yesterday spewing forth vitriol towards the church and/or its leaders it saddens me. That such a jaundiced view of humanity (yes, church leaders belong to that group along with you and me) is expressed without compassion, empathy, and understanding is disappointing and yes, rubs me the wrong way.

Anyway, you folks will judge me as you will. I’m not able to keep you from doing that. I can only speak up for myself and state the truth as I see it.

And malkie, I think you’re a pretty decent guy too. 🙂

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 1832
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by MG 2.0 »

I see that someone got their way and had this thread calved off so that their harassment could be covered up.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=156160&start=10

Regards,
MG
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Xenophon
Prophet
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:29 pm

Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Xenophon »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:36 pm
I see that someone got their way and had this thread calved off so that their harassment could be covered up.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=156160&start=10

Regards,
MG
I'm curious about this MG. Do you consider it also to be a "cover up" when posts that have been nothing but harassment/personal attacks of you have been moved or edited? The board has handled posts according to forum rules in this manner the entire time you've posted here so I'm genuinely baffled at your response here.
He/Him

“If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation.”
― Xenophon
Res Ipsa
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Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Res Ipsa »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:36 pm
I see that someone got their way and had this thread calved off so that their harassment could be covered up.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=156160&start=10

Regards,
MG
Covered up????? It’s visible!! If as you say, the portion Moved consists of harassment, then it was supposed to be split off and moved to Telestial/Prison. Are you requesting us to move harassment unrelated to the topic of the thread back to the original thread? Is this some kind of chip on the shoulder Calvinball?
he/him
"Everything we see hides another thing, we always want to see what is hidden by what we see."
– Rene Magritte
msnobody
High Priest
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:35 pm

Re: Happy Sunday

Post by msnobody »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:44 pm
Kishkumen wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:33 pm
John is a dude who has done some cool stuff, important stuff, and he has made some big mistakes along the way. I have no testimony of John Dehlin, but I have enjoyed some of the stuff he has done along the way immensely. Thanks, John Dehlin!
For a number of years I listened to his podcast almost religiously.

Double entendre.

Then I lost my religion.

He’s still at it. His missionary outreach brings coverts into his religion of no religion.

I got out while I still could. Whew!

Regards,
MG
Compassion: sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it-- Merriam Webster

One thing I see in John is compassion for others, especially those who have been kicked to the curb so to speak.


You mentioned, "His missionary outreach brings coverts into his religion of no religion."

I'm not sure he is yet equipped to help those he travels alongside in the desert of faith crisis to streams of living waters that satisfy the thirsty souls of men. I do commend him for seeking to help bear the heavy burdens of others, which after watching the Patrick Mason interview, it seems this weighs heavily on his own heart.
Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Though it costs all you have, get understanding. Prov. 4:7
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 1832
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Happy Sunday

Post by MG 2.0 »

Xenophon wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:30 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:36 pm
I see that someone got their way and had this thread calved off so that their harassment could be covered up.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=156160&start=10

Regards,
MG
I'm curious about this MG. Do you consider it also to be a "cover up" when posts that have been nothing but harassment/personal attacks of you have been moved or edited? The board has handled posts according to forum rules in this manner the entire time you've posted here so I'm genuinely baffled at your response here.
In my view, Marcus was essentially harassing Atlantic Lover without cause. The reality may actually have been the opposite. So at the very least it was a draw. I don’t see why this thread was calved off. It could just as well remained ‘as is’ in my opinion.

But you are the moderators and I’m not.

Seemingly, in this instance, a poster’s hypersensitivity to ‘feeling’ as though they had been harassed was enough for you folks to bend the knee.

I won’t make any more of an issue out of this than I already have.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by MG 2.0 »

msnobody wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:57 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:44 pm


For a number of years I listened to his podcast almost religiously.

Double entendre.

Then I lost my religion.

He’s still at it. His missionary outreach brings coverts into his religion of no religion.

I got out while I still could. Whew!

Regards,
MG
Compassion: sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it-- Merriam Webster

One thing I see in John is compassion for others, especially those who have been kicked to the curb so to speak.


You mentioned, "His missionary outreach brings coverts into his religion of no religion."

I'm not sure he is yet equipped to help those he travels alongside in the desert of faith crisis to streams of living waters that satisfy the thirsty souls of men. I do commend him for seeking to help bear the heavy burdens of others, which after watching the Patrick Mason interview, it seems this weighs heavily on his own heart.
I really don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. But I don’t know that anything that I said earlier directly contradicts what you are saying.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 1832
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Happy Sunday

Post by MG 2.0 »

Xenophon wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:30 pm
Do you consider it also to be a "cover up" when posts that have been nothing but harassment/personal attacks of you have been moved or edited? The board has handled posts according to forum rules in this manner the entire time you've posted here so I'm genuinely baffled at your response here.
I think that each situation has to be judged on its own merits.

Regards,
MG
Last edited by MG 2.0 on Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
msnobody
High Priest
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:35 pm

Re: Happy Sunday

Post by msnobody »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:05 pm
msnobody wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:57 pm


Compassion: sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it-- Merriam Webster

One thing I see in John is compassion for others, especially those who have been kicked to the curb so to speak.


You mentioned, "His missionary outreach brings coverts into his religion of no religion."

I'm not sure he is yet equipped to help those he travels alongside in the desert of faith crisis to streams of living waters that satisfy the thirsty souls of men. I do commend him for seeking to help bear the heavy burdens of others, which after watching the Patrick Mason interview, it seems this weighs heavily on his own heart.
I really don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. But I don’t know that anything that I said earlier directly contradicts what you are saying.

Regards,
MG
The church is the one that has kicked these people to the curb, and it is the church that has no living water to satisfy the thirsty souls of men because it teaches a false gospel which is not good news whatsoever. How could you kick a man who has compassion for those who others would walk right by?
Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Though it costs all you have, get understanding. Prov. 4:7
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 1832
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Happy Sunday

Post by MG 2.0 »

msnobody wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:13 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:05 pm


I really don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. But I don’t know that anything that I said earlier directly contradicts what you are saying.

Regards,
MG
The church is the one that has kicked these people to the curb, and it is the church that has no living water to satisfy the thirsty souls of men because it teaches a false gospel which is not good news whatsoever. How could you kick a man who has compassion for those who others would walk right by?
Compassion is good. No argument there. But whether or not the compassion is misplaced is another thing. I believe the gospel as taught by the CofJCofLDS is the true gospel in its fullness. As such I see the path that many have taken through the influence of John Dehlin and his followers as being unfortunate and mistaken.

At one time I WAS one of his followers. But I saw that his no religion religion was a dead end path.

By the way, I don’t want to get into a discussion here on this thread in regards to ‘false gospel’. I’ve had evangelical friends and I think I know where you’re basically coming from. I’m not going to diss your beliefs and I would hope you will follow in suit.

I too believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior and the perfect example which he gave to mankind of God’s love and grace. Our definitions might vary on what some words mean but the fact is, I do believe in God the Father and in His Son.

And I know you believe also. Blessings to you for your desire to follow Christ.

Regards,
MG
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