Happy Sunday

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Atlantic Lover wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:37 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:21 pm


If you want a moderator to take some sort of action, please use the report button and refer to the rule that you think is being violated.

Thanks.
I did report it. And I think the moderator I reported was the moderator that decided if the complaint was legitimate. That's funny!

I don't know how much longer I'll be here. I'm starting to feel sexually harassed. I've had at least three board members insinuate that I'm a male.
I see yet another iteration of snowflakes are kvetching about the board instead of having topical discussions.

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Moksha
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Moksha »

Atlantic Lover wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:37 pm


I did report it. And I think the moderator I reported was the moderator that decided if the complaint was legitimate. That's funny!

I don't know how much longer I'll be here. I'm starting to feel sexually harassed. I've had at least three board members insinuate that I'm a male.
This is America, appreciate the freedom to post as male, female, bond, or roofer (Just because Bill Cosby used roofies does not make him a roofer)!!!

Those moderators should decide on how much board disruption is too much and whether to launch an excessive number of sock puppets into space. The shenanigans that Atlantic Mike and Binger have put this board through are a testament to how much crap the moderators (and the other board participants) have put up with. I think it merits its own diagnosis in the DSM-5. Perhaps it could be designated as Drama Queenery.
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Jack T
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Jack T »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:14 pm
Jack T wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:37 am


In the previous week, I listen to five episodes of Mormon stories, the most recent of which was titled race and Mormon scripture. In the first 10 minutes of that show, the guest and John both of whom are white, characterize any person who doesn't have white skin as a marginalized person. Given that John is supposed to be a psychologist, it was really sad to hear. It begs the question of why a certified psychologist would you skin tone to assess marginalization.

In my perspective, if you go through life labeling someone or a group of people as marginalized based on their skin tone in the year 2022, you are no different from the Mormon Church's brethren in the years prior to 1978. John feels justified in his treatment of POC since he operates inside a woke ideological framework. However, racism is racism, regardless of whether someone believes their motivations are good. Isn't telling POC repeatedly that they are marginalized and that white people must assist them in order for them to achieve in 2022 the same as telling black people that they cannot hold the priesthood in 1978?

You made a poor assessment of Mike. He's not even close to being on the far right. His opinions on the LGBT community are a good place to start they are probably more liberal than most here. There's other stuff too.
Hi Jack. “Marginalized” is simply a description. For example, black folks could fairly be described as “marginalized” within the LDS Church before 1978 because the men couldn’t hold any position of authority. The priesthood ban was a rule that discriminated based on race. Marginalized is a word that describes the result of the discriminatory rule.

The rule has been gone for 45 years. If we look at the governance structure of the LDS Church and see it dominated by whites men today in way that is significantly disproportionate to the racial composition of church membership, then we could use the term marginalized to describe non-white folks in terms of church leadership.

But the term “marginalized” Is just a description. What, if anything should be done about it is an entirely different question.
Please watch the first 5 minutes of Mormon stories episode 1663 as a courtesy to me. John frequently refers to POC as marginalized, almost as though he views them as being separate from him. I find it blatantly discriminatory how he perceives those whose skin tones differ from his own. It almost seems as though he believes they are too foolish to handle whatever life throws their way. He also claims that because the lives of the marginalized are already difficult, he doesn't want to add to their burdens.

His racist and deeply problematic perspective on POC bothers me greatly. It is clear from seeing or listening to the entire podcast that John views POC as weak, ignorant, and in need of assistance from the white man. When a black woman phones in, he becomes so excited it's nearly nauseating. I would love to discuss this further.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Jack T wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:37 am
dastardly stem wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:01 pm
Welcome. There are at least 2 things I can agree with you on right off the bat. I’m an atheist to whatever extent that word Carrie’s meaning and I’m at least concerned and perplexed by the exmembers who fawn over Dehlin, and frankly disappointed in plenty of what Dehlin has to say. Other than that I’d imagine a good deal of disagreement. I don’t know if remember Atlanticmike too much as he flew in here kinda angry and unwilling to engage, but I read him as pretty far right as I recall. I’d wonder how anyone takes it further. Sounds like I may have misread him.
In the previous week, I listen to five episodes of Mormon stories, the most recent of which was titled race and Mormon scripture. In the first 10 minutes of that show, the guest and John both of whom are white, characterize any person who doesn't have white skin as a marginalized person. Given that John is supposed to be a psychologist, it was really sad to hear. It begs the question of why a certified psychologist would you skin tone to assess marginalization.

In my perspective, if you go through life labeling someone or a group of people as marginalized based on their skin tone in the year 2022, you are no different from the Mormon Church's brethren in the years prior to 1978. John feels justified in his treatment of POC since he operates inside a woke ideological framework. However, racism is racism, regardless of whether someone believes their motivations are good. Isn't telling POC repeatedly that they are marginalized and that white people must assist them in order for them to achieve in 2022 the same as telling black people that they cannot hold the priesthood in 1978?

You made a poor assessment of Mike. He's not even close to being on the far right. His opinions on the LGBT community are a good place to start they are probably more liberal than most here. There's other stuff too.
It looks like you’ve been discussing this already, along with your compatriot pretending to care about bigotry in the lower forums. Why does John Dehlin’s empathy and respect bother you so much? Have you sent him a note with your concerns?

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Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Res Ipsa »

Jack T wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:17 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:14 pm


Hi Jack. “Marginalized” is simply a description. For example, black folks could fairly be described as “marginalized” within the LDS Church before 1978 because the men couldn’t hold any position of authority. The priesthood ban was a rule that discriminated based on race. Marginalized is a word that describes the result of the discriminatory rule.

The rule has been gone for 45 years. If we look at the governance structure of the LDS Church and see it dominated by whites men today in way that is significantly disproportionate to the racial composition of church membership, then we could use the term marginalized to describe non-white folks in terms of church leadership.

But the term “marginalized” Is just a description. What, if anything should be done about it is an entirely different question.
Please watch the first 5 minutes of Mormon stories episode 1663 as a courtesy to me. John frequently refers to POC as marginalized, almost as though he views them as being separate from him. I find it blatantly discriminatory how he perceives those whose skin tones differ from his own. It almost seems as though he believes they are too foolish to handle whatever life throws their way. He also claims that because the lives of the marginalized are already difficult, he doesn't want to add to their burdens.

His racist and deeply problematic perspective on POC bothers me greatly. It is clear from seeing or listening to the entire podcast that John views POC as weak, ignorant, and in need of assistance from the white man. When a black woman phones in, he becomes so excited it's nearly nauseating. I would love to discuss this further.
I’ve never watched, or been interested in watching, John Dehlin’s podcast. I’m not interested in what he has to say on race or any other issue. He doesn’t speak for me on anything. If you have an objection to his votes on race, I suggest you take them up with him.

This is a pretty quick pivot you’ve made from attitudes of ex-Mormons towards the church to racial politics. I asked you for clarification to lay the groundwork for a discussion of issues. If you’re simply wanting to throw rocks at Dehlin as a surrogate for all former Mormons, you’re talking to the wrong guy.
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by huckelberry »

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:30 pm
I say we not rise to the bait. Let people be who they claim to be, whether they are or not. I say this as a past repeat offender in the "suspicious of sock puppet" paranoia. It is just a waste of time and creates needless drama. Do people create sock puppets? Yes. Will they sustain them forever? Probably not.
I agree with Kishkumen here. I might add I am fairly sure Atlantic lover is not Mike. I have no proof nor do I care very much.

I do wonder however about this:

I have lived sixty five years hearing black Americans complain and observe that they have been marginalized, that they do not like, it and want it to change. Before that time period I was young enough to not notice but study indicates that Blacks (Negroes back then) thought they had been marginalized and were not happy with that fact.Historical awareness finds that there is a mountain of reason for black Americans to feel this way.


Now I hear it claimed that the problem is white people telling Blacks that they have been marginalized and that this message is suppose to enslave them. I really have not seen any logic that raises this idea above a combination of historical ignorance and emotional convenience.

I suppose it is possible that it is Klan propaganda presented in sugar coating and perhaps repeated by people unaware of the source.
Last edited by huckelberry on Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Marcus
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Marcus »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:43 pm

I’ve never watched, or been interested in watching, John Dehlin’s podcast. I’m not interested in what he has to say on race or any other issue. He doesn’t speak for me on anything. If you have an objection to his votes on race, I suggest you take them up with him.

This is a pretty quick pivot you’ve made from attitudes of ex-Mormons towards the church to racial politics. I asked you for clarification to lay the groundwork for a discussion of issues. If you’re simply wanting to throw rocks at Dehlin as a surrogate for all former Mormons, you’re talking to the wrong guy.
i think we have both been out of the church about the same amount of time, and I have a similar opinion re: Dehlin. There was a thread here a couple years back expressing anger that Dehlin was the "leader" of the "ex-Mormon community." I was nonplussed by this, as i have never considered that there is a leader, let alone a unified community of those who have left the lds church.

going back to the OP:
Jack T wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:01 pm
...I suppose that's why I'm here, to learn more about how ex-Mormonism has developed into such a cynical movement. I'm curious to learn if there is a good place for someone to go if they want to leave the religion. Finding that location is proving to be challenging. I don't recall there being this much animosity for Mormons more than 25 years ago, when I left Mormonism behind. Where does the hostility originate? Why does it seem that ex-Mormon community depends on a few men who want to profit off people's emotions?
As an ex-Mormon, i don't see myself as part of a movement, and in my opinion, when people leave the lds church, they have the entire rest of the world to go to, much of which is good. The idea that ex-Mormons, as a group, are "depending" on "a few men" such as Dehlin when they leave the lds church is ludicrous to me.

There are millions upon millions upon millions of people who have left the Mormon religion behind. I can't imagine more than the smallest percentage are "dependent" upon Dehlin, and the question of "where will you go?" sounds more like a (very insulated, uneducated) lds viewpoint, nothing more.
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malkie
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by malkie »

Atlantic Lover wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:19 pm
canpakes wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:43 pm


Because, as a board participant, I’ve seen that grammar somewhere before …. ; )

I must say, I'm surprised that you're acting this way as a moderator. You're making feel like I need to defend myself. Is that how a moderator should make a board member feel? I'm trying not to be rude or cheeky, but the constant belittling is offensive, especially from a moderator.
I should probably stay out of this, but, well, ... I'm surprised, in a way, that nobody has pointed this out to you - at least as a reply to this comment.

Mods on this board wear two hats: the "Mod" hat, and the "Member" hat. On this board, unlike some others, mods are visible.

When someone who happens to be a mod is acting as a mod, you can tell that this is the case by their use of red text - generally reserved for mod-as-mod use. It is also usually the case that they make it clear, by the language they use and the actions they take or suggest that they might take that they are in mod mode. If canpakes had said that s/he had seen that grammar before, and, as a result, was splitting the thread, that would also tell you that it was a mod-as-mod post.

When someone who happens to be a mod is acting as a member, you can tell that this is the case by their not using red text, and by their making comments that look just like the kind of comments that any other member might make.

Canpakes' observation above is clearly made with his member hat on: it's not an official mod-mode comment. As far as I can see there is no justification for complaining that a mod is going after you. I could have made the comment that canpakes made. Would you have complained, or flagged the comment if I had made it?
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canpakes
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by canpakes »

Jack T wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:17 pm
It almost seems as though he believes they are too foolish to handle whatever life throws their way.
You posted this earlier:

“In reality, 2022s equivalent of physically putting someone in shackles is persuading them that they are a marginalized group in america. Labeling POC is a desperate attempt by the left to maintain their influence and dominance in minority groups…”

It almost seems as though you believe ‘they’ are too foolish to handle whatever assistance or consideration that may be available to freely choose from.

I’d love to discuss this further with you.
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Re: Happy Sunday

Post by Jack T »

canpakes wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:59 pm
Jack T wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:17 pm
It almost seems as though he believes they are too foolish to handle whatever life throws their way.
You posted this earlier:

“In reality, 2022s equivalent of physically putting someone in shackles is persuading them that they are a marginalized group in america. Labeling POC is a desperate attempt by the left to maintain their influence and dominance in minority groups…”

It almost seems as though you believe ‘they’ are too foolish to handle whatever assistance or consideration that may be available to freely choose from.

I’d love to discuss this further with you.
I doubt that you would be eager to talk about this issue more with me. I believe that whatever online connections you and I make here on the board, your contempt for Mike will eventually seep in. Could you possibly explain why Atlantic lover was prohibited from posting before you and I move forward?
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