Taking up the musket. Well, that may be so. I am a defender of the faith. Maybe more so than I was eight years ago. And from the point of view of a critic that might come across as “unpleasant language”. I would challenge anyone to show that I am in any way the purveyor of a consistent stream of vitriol and/or invective towards anyone on this board. Sure, if I see that I am figuratively being spit upon I will take notice and challenge someone for behaving badly. But that is simply self preservation and defense of my good name. I will not bow down to innuendo and false accusations.Kishkumen wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:47 pmThanks for adding that, malkie. It is good to know from your personal experience what I suspected to be true is in fact the case: MG is a decent person who is behaving badly because of his commitment to the LDS Church. I would like the think that the LDS Church actually doesn't want its members to behave in this way. And I would like to think that MG is not the person he portrays himself to be here.malkie wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:26 amPersonal observation, for what it's worth. Apologies in advance for the derail.
I made a point of contacting MG about 8 years ago when I was driving close to where he lived. (I lived about 2800 miles away, and was on a road trip to visit family.)
He graciously agreed to take some time out of his day for a chat with my wife and me. My impression at the time was that he was a decent guy who happened to largely disagree with me about the LDS church. We talked for about 20-30 minutes without any nastiness or belligerence on either side, and parted (I believe) on good terms.
Back then, on this board, I believe that he earned his moniker of "Mental Gymnast" for his tortured logic in defense of the church, but his posts were generally pleasant in tone - more so than some of mine.
It has saddened me to see how (from my PoV) he has changed since then. Perhaps it is the taking up of his musket that has made the change - I don't know - but there is now a bitterness and often nastiness that I don't think was there in his previous comments.
This is a big part of why I usually do not engage with him - I have no interest in having such unpleasant language directed at me.
I am pretty confident I am right in both cases.
I find your choice of words interesting. “ MG is a decent person who is behaving badly because of his commitment to the LDS Church.”
Why in the world would I be a “decent person” who then doesn’t have enough self awareness to take that same person into my conversations on a public message board? I wouldn’t do that. I’m the same person here that I am when not posting here. The difference is in real life I’m not around those that have a jaundiced view of the LDS Church. This view, of course, is by nature going to influence their (your) views towards those that have the gall to disagree strongly with an atheistic/agnostic world view and state publically over and over again that this worldview is mistaken…from the vantage point of believers. That I would then post what I believe to be valid points and reasons for ‘keeping the faith’ even when knowing the issues put out there by the critics, takes things up a notch and adds fuel to the fire.
And then I keep coming back.
I can see why that really gets under the skin of some folks.
But that doesn’t make me a decent person behaving badly. It’s simply that I’m a decent person defending the faith and trying to be civil while doing so. But I don’t suffer fools gladly as the saying goes. If someone or a group of people unfairly criticize the church or its leaders I will call them out.
I’m sure that is not appreciated.
Of course, the things that critics say they say they (you) say believing that they’re in the right. Of course. And you and others see yourselves as ‘defending the faith’ of secularism and/or disbelief in a benevolent God. I take issue with that (as I did just yesterday with stem on another thread), and folks (like Doc, Marcus, Wang Chung, etc.) go ballistic with innuendo, ad hominem, straw men, picture memes, and whatever else they can come up with to shut me up and cancel me.
And it hasn’t worked.
I’m not sure that there is a sure fire solution. Two contradictory world views hang in the balance. Friction is the result. Honestly, I try to remain as civil as possible. But when I observe posts like yours yesterday spewing forth vitriol towards the church and/or its leaders it saddens me. That such a jaundiced view of humanity (yes, church leaders belong to that group along with you and me) is expressed without compassion, empathy, and understanding is disappointing and yes, rubs me the wrong way.
Anyway, you folks will judge me as you will. I’m not able to keep you from doing that. I can only speak up for myself and state the truth as I see it.
And malkie, I think you’re a pretty decent guy too.