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Re: Happy Sunday
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:34 pm
by Doctor Steuss
Jack T wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:01 pm
[...] I don't recall there being this much animosity for Mormons more than 25 years ago, when I left Mormonism behind. Where does the hostility originate? [...]
I think some of the answer to this can possibly be found in the earliest days of the Church.
Look at the actions/reactions of the people who Joseph Smith directly deceived, and how they responded upon realizing it.
Also, at least here, I think you'll find that most of the animosity isn't for Mormons, but for the Church. Many likely still include Mormon within their overall identity. Even though I'm not a believer anymore, I still recognize just how Mormon I am, and likely always will be. There's a lot of cultural aspects, familial ties, etc. that can never be divested of through a belief shift.
Re: Happy Sunday
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:28 pm
by MG 2.0
drumdude wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:02 pm
I think humanity will eventually find something similar to religious community, if people continue to leave religion.
They have. There are many examples.
The question is, “Where do they lead one to?”
Many of these movements are transitory and have political goals and objectives. And then what?
Regards,
MG
Re: Happy Sunday
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:32 pm
by drumdude
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:28 pm
drumdude wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:02 pm
I think humanity will eventually find something similar to religious community, if people continue to leave religion.
They have. There are many examples.
The question is, “Where do they lead one to?”
Many of these movements are transitory and have political goals and objectives. And then what?
Regards,
MG
Like I said, nothing comes close to religion yet. I wouldn’t consider any of those transitory political movements the same as Christianity. Christianity has proven to transcend them.
It’s possible that Christianity morphs into something similar to secular Judaism.
Re: Happy Sunday
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:57 pm
by MG 2.0
drumdude wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:32 pm
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:28 pm
They have. There are many examples.
The question is, “Where do they lead one to?”
Many of these movements are transitory and have political goals and objectives. And then what?
Regards,
MG
Like I said, nothing comes close to religion yet. I wouldn’t consider any of those transitory political movements the same as Christianity. Christianity has proven to transcend them.
It’s possible that Christianity morphs into something similar to secular Judaism.
Do secular Jews meet together oft in a community and learn from and serve each other? In an organizational sort of way?
It is organizations that tend to be the ‘glue’ that keep communities of common belief together.
I would agree with you that Christianity seems to have a ‘leg up’ on keeping the faith together as communities that serve and support one another.
Maybe because Christianity and other successful religious systems see themselves, on the whole, as being non-transitory, or temporary, and see themselves as
transitioning into something greater that transcends this life.
That may be the glue that is missing from environmental movements, sports leagues, and all the rest of the ‘secular’ religions.
Regards,
MG
Re: Happy Sunday
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:05 pm
by Doctor Steuss
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:57 pm
Do secular Jews meet together oft in a community and learn from and serve each other? In an organizational sort of way?
https://shj.org/
Re: Happy Sunday
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:26 pm
by MG 2.0
Doctor Steuss wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:05 pm
MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:57 pm
Do secular Jews meet together oft in a community and learn from and serve each other? In an organizational sort of way?
https://shj.org/
Aha!
Good for them. And bless their efforts to find community and meaning…and greater good.
Regards,
MG
Re: Happy Sunday
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:33 pm
by Kishkumen
John is a dude who has done some cool stuff, important stuff, and he has made some big mistakes along the way. I have no testimony of John Dehlin, but I have enjoyed some of the stuff he has done along the way immensely. Thanks, John Dehlin!
Re: Happy Sunday
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:44 pm
by MG 2.0
Kishkumen wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:33 pm
John is a dude who has done some cool stuff, important stuff, and he has made some big mistakes along the way. I have no testimony of John Dehlin, but I have enjoyed some of the stuff he has done along the way immensely. Thanks, John Dehlin!
For a number of years I listened to his podcast almost religiously.
Double entendre.
Then I lost my religion.
He’s still at it. His missionary outreach brings coverts into his religion of no religion.
I got out while I still could. Whew!
Regards,
MG
Re: Happy Sunday
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:19 pm
by huckelberry
Jack T, you have received some responses. I was wondering if you were going to respond in any way. I was actually wondering how you avoided anger in your departure. I have thought that some anger was very much the usual experience for people leaving whether it was 100 or 50 or 5 years ago. How did it go for you?
Re: Happy Sunday
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:22 pm
by Res Ipsa
huckelberry wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:19 pm
Jack T, you have received some responses. I was wondering if you were going to respond in any way. I was actually wondering how you avoided anger in your departure. I have thought that some anger was very much the usual experience for people leaving whether it was 100 or 50 or 5 years ago. How did it go for you?
Not everyone has an angry phase. I didn't, but it's not something I can explain. In my experience, the range of experience during a transition out of Mormonism vary wildly.