Following the Sprit and Echolocation

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malkie
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Re: Following the Sprit and Echolocation

Post by malkie »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:17 pm
malkie wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:58 pm

Again, you seem to be missing the point. How do I seem to have a preference - please show me where I express that preference for an unkind god - when the thrust of my argument is that we (you and I and everyone else) cannot know?

I believe that you are the one showing a distinct preference! I'm just pointing out that you have demonstrated no rational basis for your preference.
Simply put. If God is our Father then just good ol’ common sense would tell us that He loves and cares about us. And that He has our long term best interests in mind.
You appear to be claiming that being our father would make him care about us. Sorry - that simply makes no sense to me. It's almost as if you were unaware of bad fathers.
The alternative just doesn’t make any sense. Unless you’re placing God in the same category as the Greek/Roman pantheon.
If you were to believe in God would you choose to believe in something other than a loving, kind, and compassionate God? Again, forgive me, but you seem to have a predisposition towards seeing God as a vengeful dictator kind of guy.
If I were to believe in god it would not be because I chose to do so, and I find it really difficult to imagine how I could possibly make such a choice. Perhaps that is all that is needed to explain how differently we see things. You feel able to make a choice about something that I feel compelled by evidence (or lack thereof) to believe or disbelieve, as the case may be.

As far as god's nature goes, it's almost as if you feel able to - choose to? - ignore the god of the old testament. For Mormons, that's the same person as gentle Jesus, meek and mild.
If you knew that a creator God was more likely to be loving and kind vs. hateful and vengeful would you be more likely to believe?

Regards,
MG
Again, not something that I feel is amenable to choice, or preference. The available evidence doesn't compel me to believe in any version of the god of the Bible.
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MG 2.0
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Re: Following the Sprit and Echolocation

Post by MG 2.0 »

malkie wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:37 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:17 pm

Simply put. If God is our Father then just good ol’ common sense would tell us that He loves and cares about us. And that He has our long term best interests in mind.
You appear to be claiming that being our father would make him care about us. Sorry - that simply makes no sense to me. It's almost as if you were unaware of bad fathers.
The alternative just doesn’t make any sense. Unless you’re placing God in the same category as the Greek/Roman pantheon.
Bad fathers don’t become God. Unless, of course, you’re referring to the Greek/Roman pantheon.
malkie wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:37 am

If I were to believe in god it would not be because I chose to do so, and I find it really difficult to imagine how I could possibly make such a choice. Perhaps that is all that is needed to explain how differently we see things. You feel able to make a choice about something that I feel compelled by evidence (or lack thereof) to believe or disbelieve, as the case may be.
And I see unbelief as an unreasonable choice for me. That’s why these conversations are so difficult. But I find it interesting to get a different take. For the most part I find the reasons for disbelief unsatisfying.
malkie wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:37 am
As far as god's nature goes, it's almost as if you feel able to - choose to? - ignore the god of the old testament. For Mormons, that's the same person as gentle Jesus, meek and mild.
I think there’s a LOT more going on in ancient times and among those peoples than we know. I would have greater confidence in descriptions of God that are in closer proximity to the modern era. I am fairly confident that the ancients were in many ways very different than you or me.
malkie wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:37 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:17 pm
If you knew that a creator God was more likely to be loving and kind vs. hateful and vengeful would you be more likely to believe?
Again, not something that I feel is amenable to choice, or preference. The available evidence doesn't compel me to believe in any version of the god of the Bible.
Available evidence can be somewhat disconcerting, I would agree. But again, I would suggest that relying wholeheartedly on evidence of a vengeful and brutal god through reliance on ancients texts might be unprofitable in the sense that you are not getting an accurate picture (necessarily) of who and what God really is and what ‘floats His boat’ at all times and in all seasons of the earth’s history and its peoples.

That’s why modern prophets are/would be so necessary. 🙂

Regards,
MG
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malkie
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Re: Following the Sprit and Echolocation

Post by malkie »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:21 pm
malkie wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:37 am

You appear to be claiming that being our father would make him care about us. Sorry - that simply makes no sense to me. It's almost as if you were unaware of bad fathers.
Bad fathers don’t become God. Unless, of course, you’re referring to the Greek/Roman pantheon.
malkie wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:37 am

If I were to believe in god it would not be because I chose to do so, and I find it really difficult to imagine how I could possibly make such a choice. Perhaps that is all that is needed to explain how differently we see things. You feel able to make a choice about something that I feel compelled by evidence (or lack thereof) to believe or disbelieve, as the case may be.
And I see unbelief as an unreasonable choice for me. That’s why these conversations are so difficult. But I find it interesting to get a different take. For the most part I find the reasons for disbelief unsatisfying.
malkie wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:37 am
As far as god's nature goes, it's almost as if you feel able to - choose to? - ignore the god of the old testament. For Mormons, that's the same person as gentle Jesus, meek and mild.
I think there’s a LOT more going on in ancient times and among those peoples than we know. I would have greater confidence in descriptions of God that are in closer proximity to the modern era. I am fairly confident that the ancients were in many ways very different than you or me.
malkie wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:37 am

Again, not something that I feel is amenable to choice, or preference. The available evidence doesn't compel me to believe in any version of the god of the Bible.
Available evidence can be somewhat disconcerting, I would agree. But again, I would suggest that relying wholeheartedly on evidence of a vengeful and brutal god through reliance on ancients texts might be unprofitable in the sense that you are not getting an accurate picture (necessarily) of who and what God really is and what ‘floats His boat’ at all times and in all seasons of the earth’s history and its peoples.

That’s why modern prophets are/would be so necessary. 🙂

Regards,
MG
I don't know how many times I have to say this: it's not evidence of a vengeful god that makes me a disbeliever. In fact, credible evidence of a vengeful god should make me a believer in god - albeit an unhappy one. (My reference to god's nature was made about your belief in god.)

My disbelief in god is based on lack of evidence that such a being exists - any of them, but especially (based on where we are commenting right now) the god of the Bible and the god of Mormonism: hypothetical beings with quite different characteristics.

"I see unbelief as an unreasonable choice for me." You keep telling us that you make a choice in believing in your god. I don't believe that I am capable of making that choice.

" For the most part I find the reasons for disbelief unsatisfying." You find reasons for disbelief unsatisfying when you are told that the reason is lack of evidence? That is a pretty powerful statement.

I can't say that modern prophets (LDS or any others) have provided credible evidence either, so for me that makes them totally redundant.

By the way, you have given no evidence for your claim that "Bad fathers don’t become God." How can you possibly know that? Was Brigham Young a good father, or a good husband? Is he now, or will he become, a god?
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