Dan recommends the Heartsell technique to ward off apostasy

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
drumdude
God
Posts: 2729
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Dan recommends the Heartsell technique to ward off apostasy

Post by drumdude »

I think it important to preemptively strengthen faith as well as to fend off attacks, criticisms, or doubts.



Suppose a person has been a friend of yours for several decades. You’ve always known him to be good, honorable, reliable, and kind. The report that you’ve just heard about him simply doesn’t fit with the man you know, doesn’t seem consistent with his character as you’ve observed it over the years. You don’t necessarily pronounce the report a lie, but you’re certainly more inclined to withhold judgment, to give him the benefit of the doubt, to suspend your verdict until you can get his side of the story. It’s going to take quite a bit of solid evidence to persuade you to revise your long-standing opinion of your friend.

Now, I think that this parable, if you will, can be applied to both Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.

If someone runs into an argument against the Book of Mormon, the weight that she is going to give to that argument will depend, to a significant degree, upon her general evaluation of the Book of Mormon. If she’s studied it and found it rich with spiritual treasures, she’ll be more inclined to minimize the argument’s force than if she doesn’t know the Book of Mormon very well and doesn’t value it, let alone if she already holds the book in contempt or derision.

This is also good advice for running a used car lot. If you’re kind, smile, and make an emotional connection with your customer, when they take the junker you just sold to a mechanic, you can easily fall back on the emotional connection you made with them.

“You don’t think I would have sold you a clunker, do you?”

“I have had my mechanics look at it and they say it’s fine.”

“You don’t have enough knowledge or training to know if your car is broken or not. Read this pamphlet my guys came up with to assuage your fears. Stop listening to all those other mechanics that I am not paying.”

“I have 8 witnesses, all my family, who have testified that your car is perfectly fine.”

“Remember how happy you were when you drove it off the car lot?”
dastardly stem
God
Posts: 1480
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:38 pm

Re: Dan recommends the Heartsell technique to ward off apostasy

Post by dastardly stem »

drumdude wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:51 pm
I think it important to preemptively strengthen faith as well as to fend off attacks, criticisms, or doubts.



Suppose a person has been a friend of yours for several decades. You’ve always known him to be good, honorable, reliable, and kind. The report that you’ve just heard about him simply doesn’t fit with the man you know, doesn’t seem consistent with his character as you’ve observed it over the years. You don’t necessarily pronounce the report a lie, but you’re certainly more inclined to withhold judgment, to give him the benefit of the doubt, to suspend your verdict until you can get his side of the story. It’s going to take quite a bit of solid evidence to persuade you to revise your long-standing opinion of your friend.

Now, I think that this parable, if you will, can be applied to both Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.

If someone runs into an argument against the Book of Mormon, the weight that she is going to give to that argument will depend, to a significant degree, upon her general evaluation of the Book of Mormon. If she’s studied it and found it rich with spiritual treasures, she’ll be more inclined to minimize the argument’s force than if she doesn’t know the Book of Mormon very well and doesn’t value it, let alone if she already holds the book in contempt or derision.

This is also good advice for running a used car lot. If you’re kind, smile, and make an emotional connection with your customer, when they take the junker you just sold to a mechanic, you can easily fall back on the emotional connection you made with them.

“You don’t think I would have sold you a clunker, do you?”

“I have had my mechanics look at it and they say it’s fine.”

“You don’t have enough knowledge or training to know if your car is broken or not. Read this pamphlet my guys came up with to assuage your fears. Stop listening to all those other mechanics that I am not paying.”

“I have 8 witnesses, all my family, who have testified that your car is perfectly fine.”

“Remember how happy you were when you drove it off the car lot?”
As I grew older and saw less and less value in the Book of Mormon it sure made it easier to accept all the other problems with the Church. I think his parable holds generally. That's what we do. We run on bias, perception and all of that. I'd say once we recognize our biases and willingly challenge ourselves on them, we're more willing to accept reality, and accept that which ought to be important to us.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
User avatar
Kishkumen
God
Posts: 3511
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: Dan recommends the Heartsell technique to ward off apostasy

Post by Kishkumen »

My favorite religious texts in the Judeo-Christian tradition are:

Genesis
The Gospel of John
Hymn of the Pearl
The Gospel of Thomas
Ecclesiastes

In the Mormon canon:
First Nephi
Book of Abraham
Book of Moses

No book makes me feel obliged to join or stick with a church.
"Stubborn audacity is the last refuge of guilt." ~ Samuel Johnson
drumdude
God
Posts: 2729
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: Dan recommends the Heartsell technique to ward off apostasy

Post by drumdude »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:24 pm
My favorite religious texts in the Judeo-Christian tradition are:

Genesis
The Gospel of John
Hymn of the Pearl
The Gospel of Thomas
Ecclesiastes

In the Mormon canon:
First Nephi
Book of Abraham
Book of Moses

No book makes me feel obliged to join or stick with a church.
What specifically do you enjoy from the pearl of great price?
dastardly stem
God
Posts: 1480
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:38 pm

Re: Dan recommends the Heartsell technique to ward off apostasy

Post by dastardly stem »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:24 pm
My favorite religious texts in the Judeo-Christian tradition are:

Genesis
The Gospel of John
Hymn of the Pearl
The Gospel of Thomas
Ecclesiastes

In the Mormon canon:
First Nephi
Book of Abraham
Book of Moses

No book makes me feel obliged to join or stick with a church.
That’s nice to post, kish. I’d probably replace 1 Nephi with Mosiah and Hebrews with that Hymn of the Pearl you mention. Other than that I feel about with you. Glad you mention Thomas and Ecclesiastes.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
User avatar
Kishkumen
God
Posts: 3511
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: Dan recommends the Heartsell technique to ward off apostasy

Post by Kishkumen »

dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:26 pm
That’s nice to post, kish. I’d probably replace 1 Nephi with Mosiah and Hebrews with that Hymn of the Pearl you mention. Other than that I feel about with you. Glad you mention Thomas and Ecclesiastes.
Good choices, stem. Hebrews is really good. Mosiah is definitely more inspiring than 1 Nephi. I honestly chose 1 Nephi for the story, but it has more troubling aspects.
"Stubborn audacity is the last refuge of guilt." ~ Samuel Johnson
User avatar
Kishkumen
God
Posts: 3511
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: Dan recommends the Heartsell technique to ward off apostasy

Post by Kishkumen »

drumdude wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:49 pm
What specifically do you enjoy from the pearl of great price?
I very much like the first chapters of both Abraham and Moses.
"Stubborn audacity is the last refuge of guilt." ~ Samuel Johnson
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 3485
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

Re: Dan recommends the Heartsell technique to ward off apostasy

Post by Philo Sofee »

Kishkumen
My favorite religious texts in the Judeo-Christian tradition are:

Genesis
The Gospel of John
Hymn of the Pearl
The Gospel of Thomas
Ecclesiastes
I would go with:
Genesis
Psalms
Gospel of John
Hymn of the Pearl
Gospel of Thomas
Zohar
Sefer Yetzirah
Bahir
Tarot (I know, I know, it is not realized Tarot is in the Judeo-Christian religious tradition, but it is...)
Honorable mention is Richard Dawkins - "The God Delusion" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Come on, you wouldn't expect anything less than a little smart assery from me...
User avatar
Kishkumen
God
Posts: 3511
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: Dan recommends the Heartsell technique to ward off apostasy

Post by Kishkumen »

What about the Sefer ha-Razim, Philo?

The prayers to Helios alone are worth the price of admission.
"Stubborn audacity is the last refuge of guilt." ~ Samuel Johnson
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 3856
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Dan recommends the Heartsell technique to ward off apostasy

Post by Moksha »

The Desiderata seems to be loaded with nuggets of wisdom.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Post Reply