Apostolic Bullying

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IHAQ
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Apostolic Bullying

Post by IHAQ »

One day in early 2004, Robert C. Gay and his wife, Lynette, sat in the office of an Apostle of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Gays, Church members living in the eastern United States, were busy with family, large humanitarian projects around the world, and Elder Gay’s work as a senior managing partner of a global investment firm.
Even so, on that day, this Apostle asked them to set their everyday lives aside for three years to be a mission president and companion of one of the faith’s 337 missions. Considering the busyness of their lives, they politely declined.
The Apostle did not miss a beat. “Lynette, you are going to make a great missionary and companion to your husband,” he said. Then, turning to Robert (now Elder Gay of the Presidency of the Seventy) he spoke with unmistakable candor. “You really don’t get it,” the Apostle said. “The Lord is calling you to save your life. You are either going to live your life by covenant or convenience. There is never a convenient time to serve. This is a matter of faith. You either believe that the Lord will bless your life with the blessings you need as you do His priorities, or you don’t.”
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... l-may-2020

You don't say no to an Apostle...
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Moksha
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Re: Apostolic Bullying

Post by Moksha »

Makes sense, either agree to the calling or sleep with the fishes.



Hey, is this the guy that created the endowed chair of Reformed Egyptian apologetics at BYU for John Gee?
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Tom
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Re: Apostolic Bullying

Post by Tom »

Sounds like M. Russell Ballard. From an April 1999 general conference address:
Sometimes we are tempted to let our lives be governed more by convenience than by covenant. It is not always convenient to live gospel standards and stand up for truth and testify of the Restoration. It usually is not convenient to share the gospel with others. It isn’t always convenient to respond to a calling in the Church, especially one that stretches our abilities. Opportunities to serve others in meaningful ways, as we have covenanted to do, rarely come at convenient times. But there is no spiritual power in living by convenience. The power comes as we keep our covenants.
Dr Exiled
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Re: Apostolic Bullying

Post by Dr Exiled »

Thank [insert your favorite deity here] that there aren't that many in the world who blindly follow these guys. Also, the idea of this type of unthinking obedience is a bad precedent for society. We need more people who will stand up to authority when necessary, not less, regardless of what or whom the authority is.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
MG 2.0
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Re: Apostolic Bullying

Post by MG 2.0 »

IHAQ wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:38 am
One day in early 2004, Robert C. Gay and his wife, Lynette, sat in the office of an Apostle of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Gays, Church members living in the eastern United States, were busy with family, large humanitarian projects around the world, and Elder Gay’s work as a senior managing partner of a global investment firm.
Even so, on that day, this Apostle asked them to set their everyday lives aside for three years to be a mission president and companion of one of the faith’s 337 missions. Considering the busyness of their lives, they politely declined.
The Apostle did not miss a beat. “Lynette, you are going to make a great missionary and companion to your husband,” he said. Then, turning to Robert (now Elder Gay of the Presidency of the Seventy) he spoke with unmistakable candor. “You really don’t get it,” the Apostle said. “The Lord is calling you to save your life. You are either going to live your life by covenant or convenience. There is never a convenient time to serve. This is a matter of faith. You either believe that the Lord will bless your life with the blessings you need as you do His priorities, or you don’t.”
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... l-may-2020

You don't say no to an Apostle...
I suppose only Elder Gay and his wife would be able to definitively answer the question as to whether their life is filled with joy…or not…from staying on the covenant path, walking in obedience, and making sacrifices. I can guess what their answer might be.

And its different from yours.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
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Re: Apostolic Bullying

Post by MG 2.0 »

Dr Exiled wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:37 pm
Thank [insert your favorite deity here] that there aren't that many in the world who blindly follow these guys.
Agreed. Blind faith is NOT the order of Heaven, in my opinion. We should have evidence/reason for the faith that is in us.

But on the flip side, there aren’t that many people in the world that follow “these guys” even with the reasons there are to believe in their prophetic callings.

Not to say that you don’t have your reasons for disbelief.

Regards,
MG
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Doctor Steuss
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Re: Apostolic Bullying

Post by Doctor Steuss »

LDS Newsroom: Large humanitarian projects across the world are less important than babysitting 1/337th of the Church's missionaries.
dastardly stem
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Re: Apostolic Bullying

Post by dastardly stem »

You have to wonder how many people turn down apostles after bullying like this.

I recall when I first pushed back on the bullying. I was told I was no longer a brother in the gospel by the Bishop as I recall, but I also realize in many ways it was the beginning of the end for me and the Church. It hurt when he put the pressure on and said I couldn't be considered his brother at the time. Now i look back and giggle a little.

To many believers, no doubt, my push back against the bullying was an obvious step towards apostacy I'd imagine. I took the step and didn't look back...it fits well with what God in their scriptures and sermons predicted about me or someone like me, I suppose.
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Doctor Steuss
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Re: Apostolic Bullying

Post by Doctor Steuss »

dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:11 pm
You have to wonder how many people turn down apostles after bullying like this.

I recall when I first pushed back on the bullying. I was told I was no longer a brother in the gospel by the Bishop as I recall, but I also realize in many ways it was the beginning of the end for me and the Church. It hurt when he put the pressure on and said I couldn't be considered his brother at the time. Now i look back and giggle a little.

To many believers, no doubt, my push back against the bullying was an obvious step towards apostacy I'd imagine. I took the step and didn't look back...it fits well with what God in their scriptures and sermons predicted about me or someone like me, I suppose.
My wife joined after we married. The Bishopric had come over one night to ask me to be over the young men. I expressed all of my emotional/mental concerns, and tepidly declined. I was pushed more on it (the standard, the Lord inspired this, God will help you, the qualified aren’t called but the called are qualified, etc.). I reiterated my concerns, and again declined. It was up there in the top anxiety-inducing experiences in my life. It was the first and only time I had ever turned down a calling, and I was heavy with guilt for doing so.

They left with a “pray about it, and we’ll look forward to your answer.”

My wife was appalled, and I actually had to have her explain why. When the Spirit is a strong-arm tough guy, you become normalized to boundaries regarding your time and abilities being nonexistent.
IHAQ
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Re: Apostolic Bullying

Post by IHAQ »

Popular data suggests 10% of all managerial positions are filled with Psycopaths. That applies to positions in business, politics, sport, religion etc. One can conclude that at least 10% of the 15 Apostles and other General Authorities are high on the psychopath scale. A bigger percentage than 10% will have one of three (or a combination of more than 1 of these 3) personality disorders - Psychopathy, Machiavellianism, Narcissism. The higher up an organisational hierarchy you go, the denser the concentration of these personalty disorders. People with these personality disorders have a tendency to bully others. Whoever it was that "offered" the mission president calling to Elder Gay, you can be virtually certain they have 1 or more of those personalty disorders.
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