Utah Mormons think God wants green lawns rather than drinking water

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
IHAQ
God
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:00 am

Utah Mormons think God wants green lawns rather than drinking water

Post by IHAQ »

For many Mormons in Utah – who make up two-thirds of the state’s population of 3 million – the concept of being a good steward is wrapped up in a pioneer nostalgia that favors an artificial, irrigated landscape over the natural desert environment. This Mormon version of Manifest Destiny is at the heart of why Utahns suck up so much municipal water as well as why the state is moving at a dangerously glacial pace to deal with the climate crisis.

It explains why Utah uses more municipal water than any state in the country, except for Idaho. And why the state has long supported a heavily subsidized water pricing system and zoning laws that encourage, if not flat-out demand, a yard full of well-tended grass.

When trying to explain the near-religious devotion to irrigated landscapes, Mormons often quote a verse from the Old Testament (Isaiah 35:1-2) that inspired their 19th century pioneer ancestors who settled in Utah: “The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... egadrought
Over the last two decades, as megadrought took hold in the south-west, arid states such as California, Nevada and Arizona, have been implementing increasingly aggressive conservation measures. Las Vegas, Phoenix and Los Angeles budget millions of dollars to pay residents to pull out their lawns while water cops patrol neighborhood streets to make sure everyone is following the rules. But until last summer, few conservation measures were implemented in Utah.
What is it a Prophet does again?
“Mormons believe that if there is a problem, God will provide,” says Rich Ingebretsen, a great-grandson of Brigham Young and founder of the non-profit Glen Canyon Institute. “That is why Governor Cox asked everyone to pray for rain. The attitude has always been that if we pray and pay our tithing to the church, then we don’t need to save the Earth because God will save it for us. I have heard this so many times.”
Don't forget to not eat for 24 hours, that fixes everything.
Ingebretsen says he has observed more Latter-day Saints members in recent years who are concerned about climate crisis and have started to cut back on watering their lawns. But he is disappointed at how Mormon church leadership has not taken aggressive steps to set a public example on water conservation.

“It is hard to miss the fact that every LDS church along the Wasatch Front has wall to wall Kentucky bluegrass,” says Zach Frankel. “And they over water it, flooding streets and sidewalks. I have never seen an LDS church in Utah with xeriscape landscaping.”
The Church cares more about looks than it does about people.
dastardly stem
God
Posts: 2259
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:38 pm

Re: Utah Mormons think God wants green lawns rather than drinking water

Post by dastardly stem »

Yep. This is a ridiculous problem. Church's demand unlimited water, and I mean it's basically unlimited, to water huge areas of green grass to look well kept are annoying. In my neighborhood, a rather non-conservative one by Utah standards (and yet again this is somehow a political issue rather than a pragmatic one), there are quite a few houses who have given up green grass and have let the yard die completely--they put up signs pleading with others to slow the flow. Unfortunately each house next door, across the street and the like essentially flip the bird at them as they eat up all the water and likely eat up their dry neighbors share just for fun. Because they can. We water our veggies with stored up rain water and have dirt, rock and stuff that cover our 1/5th acre lot. My two neighbors across the street are similar--one just lets it die, the other put out rock coverings. They aren't Mormon either. but those on either side of us, and them, its all green. But they are active Mormons. The divide on this issue is a little too obvious, even if there are exceptions.
Last edited by dastardly stem on Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5777
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Utah Mormons think God wants green lawns rather than drinking water

Post by Moksha »

Church officials may value private golf courses, but they also realize that members need to drink water in order to tithe and obey.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 8952
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:04 am

Re: Utah Mormons think God wants green lawns rather than drinking water

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

dastardly stem wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:57 pm
Yep. This is a ridiculous problem. Church's demand unlimited water, and I mean it's basically unlimited, to water huge areas of green grass to look well kept are annoying. In my neighborhood, a rather non-conservative one by Utah standards (and yet again this is somehow a political issue rather than a pragmatic one), there are quite a few houses who have given up green grass and have let the yard die completely--they put up signs pleading with others to slow the flow. Unfortunately each house next door, across the street and the like essentially flip the bird at them as they eat up all the water and likely eat up their dry neighbors share just for fun. Because they can. We water our veggies with stored up rain water and have dirt, rock and stuff that cover our 5th acre lot. My two neighbors across the street are similar--one just lets it die, the other put out rock coverings. They aren't Mormon either. but those on either side of us, and them, its all green. But they are active Mormons. The divide on this issue is a little too obvious, even if there are exceptions.
5 acres? Wow, lucky you :lol: I wouldn’t know what to do with more than an acre, do you have livestock by chance? I’m going through a permaculture phase and a lot of the plans were designed for 5 acre homesteads and whatnot. We call our space a ‘yarden’ since our lot is all drip line to grow veggies and pollinating plants, but it’s only .25 acres. I mean, we feel lucky because the space works for our energy levels, but 5 acres, not gonna lie, I feel envy. :D

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
dastardly stem
God
Posts: 2259
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:38 pm

Re: Utah Mormons think God wants green lawns rather than drinking water

Post by dastardly stem »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:37 pm
dastardly stem wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:57 pm
Yep. This is a ridiculous problem. Church's demand unlimited water, and I mean it's basically unlimited, to water huge areas of green grass to look well kept are annoying. In my neighborhood, a rather non-conservative one by Utah standards (and yet again this is somehow a political issue rather than a pragmatic one), there are quite a few houses who have given up green grass and have let the yard die completely--they put up signs pleading with others to slow the flow. Unfortunately each house next door, across the street and the like essentially flip the bird at them as they eat up all the water and likely eat up their dry neighbors share just for fun. Because they can. We water our veggies with stored up rain water and have dirt, rock and stuff that cover our 5th acre lot. My two neighbors across the street are similar--one just lets it die, the other put out rock coverings. They aren't Mormon either. but those on either side of us, and them, its all green. But they are active Mormons. The divide on this issue is a little too obvious, even if there are exceptions.
5 acres? Wow, lucky you :lol: I wouldn’t know what to do with more than an acre, do you have livestock by chance? I’m going through a permaculture phase and a lot of the plans were designed for 5 acre homesteads and whatnot. We call our space a ‘yarden’ since our lot is all drip line to grow veggies and pollinating plants, but it’s only .25 acres. I mean, we feel lucky because the space works for our energy levels, but 5 acres, not gonna lie, I feel envy. :D

- Doc
Oops I meant 1/5th acre. I should be more careful.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
User avatar
Doctor Steuss
God
Posts: 1667
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:48 pm

Re: Utah Mormons think God wants green lawns rather than drinking water

Post by Doctor Steuss »

“It is hard to miss the fact that every LDS church along the Wasatch Front has wall to wall Kentucky bluegrass,” says Zach Frankel. “And they over water it, flooding streets and sidewalks. I have never seen an LDS church in Utah with xeriscape landscaping.”
I thought this comment was nonsense, given the Utah chapel landscaping changes I've seen in Southern Utah.

But, looking up north, I did a random google in Bountiful, chose a chapel, zoomed in to street view, and... all grass. Not only that, but it's as if google knew I was coming, and made sure the street view also included water run-off in the gutter.

Google - Chapel in Bountiful
User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 8952
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:04 am

Re: Utah Mormons think God wants green lawns rather than drinking water

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

dastardly stem wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:46 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:37 pm


5 acres? Wow, lucky you :lol: I wouldn’t know what to do with more than an acre, do you have livestock by chance? I’m going through a permaculture phase and a lot of the plans were designed for 5 acre homesteads and whatnot. We call our space a ‘yarden’ since our lot is all drip line to grow veggies and pollinating plants, but it’s only .25 acres. I mean, we feel lucky because the space works for our energy levels, but 5 acres, not gonna lie, I feel envy. :D

- Doc
Oops I meant 1/5th acre. I should be more careful.
Ah, no worries. I make typos all the time, though I should’ve intuited you meant 1/5 instead of 5.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 8952
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:04 am

Re: Utah Mormons think God wants green lawns rather than drinking water

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:46 pm
“It is hard to miss the fact that every LDS church along the Wasatch Front has wall to wall Kentucky bluegrass,” says Zach Frankel. “And they over water it, flooding streets and sidewalks. I have never seen an LDS church in Utah with xeriscape landscaping.”
I thought this comment was nonsense, given the Utah chapel landscaping changes I've seen in Southern Utah.

But, looking up north, I did a random google in Bountiful, chose a chapel, zoomed in to street view, and... all grass. Not only that, but it's as if google knew I was coming, and made sure the street view also included water run-off in the gutter.

Google - Chapel in Bountiful
Good Lord, that hurts to see. They could create giant beautiful pollinator gardens. Or they could have vegetable patches that members could work for free produce. So much wasted space. Ugh.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
dastardly stem
God
Posts: 2259
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:38 pm

Re: Utah Mormons think God wants green lawns rather than drinking water

Post by dastardly stem »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:59 pm
Doctor Steuss wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:46 pm

I thought this comment was nonsense, given the Utah chapel landscaping changes I've seen in Southern Utah.

But, looking up north, I did a random google in Bountiful, chose a chapel, zoomed in to street view, and... all grass. Not only that, but it's as if google knew I was coming, and made sure the street view also included water run-off in the gutter.

Google - Chapel in Bountiful
Good Lord, that hurts to see. They could create giant beautiful pollinator gardens. Or they could have vegetable patches that members could work for free produce. So much wasted space. Ugh.

- Doc
Its a great thought. How much acreage does the church own along the wasatch Front? How much of it is basically unused space covered in grass and over watered? The Church has at its finger tips a great resource to promote community and promote conservation. of course we all know the Church has had ample opportunity to do many good things and has looked the other way. I think of the closest 3 churches to my house and estimate 6 or seven acres of green grass, basically unused. Two of them have large fields that are ignored save for a few nights a year in the summer. I'm serious about that. They are hardly used, as far as I can tell.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
IHAQ
God
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:00 am

Re: Utah Mormons think God wants green lawns rather than drinking water

Post by IHAQ »

It will come as no surprise to find the Church didn’t practice what it preached…
More than three months after the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced it was focusing on water conservation, its lawns in Salt Lake County remain mostly lush and green.

Driving the news: Axios surveyed more than 120 meetinghouses and other church properties in Salt Lake County during the first 10 days of October, after a summer of record-breaking heat during a continuing drought.

Only four of the lawns showed notable water stress or dormancy.
More than 90% of the sites were overwhelmingly landscaped with healthy, green turf grass.
Why it matters: State and local leaders are imploring homeowners to reduce their landscaping water use as the West grapples with a megadrought and the Great Salt Lake continues to shrink.

Catch up quick: The church announced in June that it was reducing its water use with landscaping changes and plumbing fixes.

"Watering of lawns and landscapes at temples, meetinghouses and other buildings is being reduced," church leaders wrote. "In some cases, landscape will be permitted to brown and become dormant."
Of note: At several locations, we compared the church lawn to neighboring lawns and consistently found neighboring properties with less-green grass than the churches did.

That suggests the church's grass didn't simply rebound as temperatures cooled in September.
https://www.axios.com/local/salt-lake-c ... nservation
Post Reply