Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

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IHAQ
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Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by IHAQ »

Many years ago, a Protestant told me a joke about a man who goes to heaven and while walking around notices that there is a group of people mingling with each other away from everyone else.

He asks someone who they are. He is told: “Oh, those are the Mormons. They think they are the only ones here.”

The sense that God has a unique relationship with Latter-day Saints has been a facet of the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints since its inception. But a recent statement by President Russell M. Nelson may be taking that view to the next level, i.e. that God loves Latter-day Saints more than he does other people.
https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commenta ... -god-love/
In the October issue of the church’s magazine for adults, Nelson states that “all those who have made a covenant with God have access to a special kind of love and mercy.” Then he describes what covenants he is referring to: baptism, temple endowment, a marital sealing in the temple. All of those require membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

This is not a new idea for President Nelson. He made a similar assertion in a conference talk in 2003 when he was Elder Nelson. But it is new in his role as church president.

The idea that God loves Latter-day Saints more than others has not been part of church doctrine in the past. When then Nelson gave his conference talk in 2003, no other church leaders affirmed what he said as church doctrine, including the First Presidency. It has been a tenet that God blesses people who keep his commandments more than those who do not, but not that he loves them more. And that did not refer only to church members.
However, there may be some unintended repercussions if this becomes church doctrine. One may be in the church’s ecumenical outreach. A doctrine that God loves Latter-day Saints more than Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc., may not be received well by leaders of other churches. It could create the kind of criticism the LDS Church received over proxy baptisms of Holocaust survivors.

It also could impact missionary work. Claiming that God loves Latter-day Saints more may be a decided turn-off for people investigating the church. This could be problematic in an age when people expect religions to teach God’s unconditional love regardless of what religion someone belongs to. Will those outside the church view church members more negatively because of the message that God doesn’t love them as much as he does the Latter-day Saints?

The conversion rate right already is anemic. Could this produce one more reason for people not to join?
There's no doubt Nelson thinks he's special. I'd be interested in seeing members and missionaries tell non members, friends and acquaintances that their Prophet has said God loves them more...
dastardly stem
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by dastardly stem »

Everyone whose part of a religion in our western world think God loves them more than others. I'd suggest anyone who believes in God thinks God loves them more than others. Anyone who imagines a God, working on them, teaching them and blessing them also imagines a God who loves them more than He loves others--because while they are exalting themselves with that love, others suffer and struggle, die or go crazy without God blessing them, or teaching them.

Likewise traditional Christians speaks as if God loves them more than any Mormon. Mormons are wrong. God lets them get tricked while they think they are really experiencing God. One day they'll know, but for most it'll be too late.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
huckelberry
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by huckelberry »

dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:21 pm
Everyone whose part of a religion in our western world think God loves them more than others. I'd suggest anyone who believes in God thinks God loves them more than others. Anyone who imagines a God, working on them, teaching them and blessing them also imagines a God who loves them more than He loves others--because while they are exalting themselves with that love, others suffer and struggle, die or go crazy without God blessing them, or teaching them.
Some do just as some atheist think they are the cream of humanity or smarter then everybody else. But you said everyone and you are just plain wrong.
dastardly stem
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by dastardly stem »

huckelberry wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:01 pm

Some do just as some atheist think they are the cream of humanity or smarter then everybody else. But you said everyone and you are just plain wrong.
I think I see where you're coming from, huckelberry. I'm curious though, do believers not think God loves those whom he saves? Does it not stand to reason that he loves them more than those who, say, murder, rape and defy the Holy Spirit, or what have you? If not, do we think then God loves the devil just as much as he loves everyone else?
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
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malkie
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by malkie »

According to Elder Nelson, Mormon god's love is conditional.
Elder Russell M. Nelson Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles wrote:While divine love can be called perfect, infinite, enduring, and universal, it cannot correctly be characterized as unconditional.
Divine Love
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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Any notion that God/deity loves someone more than someone else is absurd and indicates that individual doesn't know the true nature of God. :oops:
msnobody
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by msnobody »

dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:21 pm
Everyone whose part of a religion in our western world think God loves them more than others. I'd suggest anyone who believes in God thinks God loves them more than others. Anyone who imagines a God, working on them, teaching them and blessing them also imagines a God who loves them more than He loves others--because while they are exalting themselves with that love, others suffer and struggle, die or go crazy without God blessing them, or teaching them.

Likewise traditional Christians speaks as if God loves them more than any Mormon. Mormons are wrong. God lets them get tricked while they think they are really experiencing God. One day they'll know, but for most it'll be too late.
No! I personally, have realized on a deeper level how much God loves me by seeing how much he loves Mormons.

Out of curiosity, what do you suppose drives a person such as myself to continue on here for so many years?
The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession... The LORD set his love on you and chose you... The LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery. Deut. 7
huckelberry
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by huckelberry »

dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:25 pm
huckelberry wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:01 pm

Some do just as some atheist think they are the cream of humanity or smarter then everybody else. But you said everyone and you are just plain wrong.
I think I see where you're coming from, huckelberry. I'm curious though, do believers not think God loves those whom he saves? Does it not stand to reason that he loves them more than those who, say, murder, rape and defy the Holy Spirit, or what have you? If not, do we think then God loves the devil just as much as he loves everyone else?
Stem I have no information or even logic to analyze the love God may have for murders and other destructive types. There is the easy formulae that says Gods loves the sinner but hates the sin. I find that phrase perhaps says something but is well shy of a complete answer. I think it is perhaps safe to generalize and say God loves the devil differently than he does you and I.

My comment was aimed at a more limited point. I believe God loves both you and I . The firm ground to stand on is to realize that I am a sinner weak in a variety of ways. I need forgiveness to help me realize love , be constructive, and be a help to others. I feel as sure that God cares about those others as I think he cares about me. I realize that there are people for whom belief is a rock on which to stand upon to appear to be above others. It is a slippery rock and such loud believers who think they are better than others risk the , "I never knew you"

I do not know if love can hide behind that phrase. It might not be final except as a final judgement upon vanity and selfish self absorption.
dastardly stem
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by dastardly stem »

huckelberry wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:00 pm
dastardly stem wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:25 pm


I think I see where you're coming from, huckelberry. I'm curious though, do believers not think God loves those whom he saves? Does it not stand to reason that he loves them more than those who, say, murder, rape and defy the Holy Spirit, or what have you? If not, do we think then God loves the devil just as much as he loves everyone else?
Stem I have no information or even logic to analyze the love God may have for murders and other destructive types. There is the easy formulae that says Gods loves the sinner but hates the sin. I find that phrase perhaps says something but is well shy of a complete answer. I think it is perhaps safe to generalize and say God loves the devil differently than he does you and I.

My comment was aimed at a more limited point. I believe God loves both you and I . The firm ground to stand on is to realize that I am a sinner weak in a variety of ways. I need forgiveness to help me realize love , be constructive, and be a help to others. I feel as sure that God cares about those others as I think he cares about me. I realize that there are people for whom belief is a rock on which to stand upon to appear to be above others. It is a slippery rock and such loud believers who think they are better than others risk the , "I never knew you"

I do not know if love can hide behind that phrase. It might not be final except as a final judgement upon vanity and selfish self absorption.
I’d continue to wonder what to make of gods love when considering those whom he decides to cast out or tells “I never knew you”. Does his love go with them into eternal torment or annihilation? It’s seems pretty odd and perhaps even inconsistent to think god loves everyone. But as I’ve said before and elsewhere, it’s good for believers to ignore teaching or scripture and run with a better god and religion.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
Atlantic Lover
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by Atlantic Lover »

IHAQ wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:19 am
Many years ago, a Protestant told me a joke about a man who goes to heaven and while walking around notices that there is a group of people mingling with each other away from everyone else.

He asks someone who they are. He is told: “Oh, those are the Mormons. They think they are the only ones here.”

The sense that God has a unique relationship with Latter-day Saints has been a facet of the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints since its inception. But a recent statement by President Russell M. Nelson may be taking that view to the next level, i.e. that God loves Latter-day Saints more than he does other people.
https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commenta ... -god-love/
In the October issue of the church’s magazine for adults, Nelson states that “all those who have made a covenant with God have access to a special kind of love and mercy.” Then he describes what covenants he is referring to: baptism, temple endowment, a marital sealing in the temple. All of those require membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

This is not a new idea for President Nelson. He made a similar assertion in a conference talk in 2003 when he was Elder Nelson. But it is new in his role as church president.

The idea that God loves Latter-day Saints more than others has not been part of church doctrine in the past. When then Nelson gave his conference talk in 2003, no other church leaders affirmed what he said as church doctrine, including the First Presidency. It has been a tenet that God blesses people who keep his commandments more than those who do not, but not that he loves them more. And that did not refer only to church members.
However, there may be some unintended repercussions if this becomes church doctrine. One may be in the church’s ecumenical outreach. A doctrine that God loves Latter-day Saints more than Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc., may not be received well by leaders of other churches. It could create the kind of criticism the LDS Church received over proxy baptisms of Holocaust survivors.

It also could impact missionary work. Claiming that God loves Latter-day Saints more may be a decided turn-off for people investigating the church. This could be problematic in an age when people expect religions to teach God’s unconditional love regardless of what religion someone belongs to. Will those outside the church view church members more negatively because of the message that God doesn’t love them as much as he does the Latter-day Saints?

The conversion rate right already is anemic. Could this produce one more reason for people not to join?
There's no doubt Nelson thinks he's special. I'd be interested in seeing members and missionaries tell non members, friends and acquaintances that their Prophet has said God loves them more...
And why is this a problem? For goodness sake, it's Nelson's job to tell Latter Day Saints that Heavenly Father loves us. What would be bothersome is if he said God loves the Catholics or protestants more than us. I think you have this totally backwards, upside down and in reverse.
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