Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

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Kishkumen
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by Kishkumen »

malkie wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:01 pm
According to Elder Nelson, Mormon god's love is conditional.
Elder Russell M. Nelson Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles wrote:While divine love can be called perfect, infinite, enduring, and universal, it cannot correctly be characterized as unconditional.
Divine Love
Nelson is a theological disaster area.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by msnobody »

dastardly stem wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:07 am
huckelberry wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:00 pm
Stem I have no information or even logic to analyze the love God may have for murders and other destructive types. There is the easy formulae that says Gods loves the sinner but hates the sin. I find that phrase perhaps says something but is well shy of a complete answer. I think it is perhaps safe to generalize and say God loves the devil differently than he does you and I.

My comment was aimed at a more limited point. I believe God loves both you and I . The firm ground to stand on is to realize that I am a sinner weak in a variety of ways. I need forgiveness to help me realize love , be constructive, and be a help to others. I feel as sure that God cares about those others as I think he cares about me. I realize that there are people for whom belief is a rock on which to stand upon to appear to be above others. It is a slippery rock and such loud believers who think they are better than others risk the , "I never knew you"

I do not know if love can hide behind that phrase. It might not be final except as a final judgement upon vanity and selfish self absorption.
I’d continue to wonder what to make of gods love when considering those whom he decides to cast out or tells “I never knew you”. Does his love go with them into eternal torment or annihilation? It’s seems pretty odd and perhaps even inconsistent to think god loves everyone. But as I’ve said before and elsewhere, it’s good for believers to ignore teaching or scripture and run with a better god and religion.
I agree with what huckleberry said.

It is my understanding the God allows for free will for his creation, both human and with supernatural beings. It is my understanding that those who wind up in Hell, do so by their own doing. I think it probably does grieves God.
The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession... The LORD set his love on you and chose you... The LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery. Deut. 7
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by msnobody »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:35 am
malkie wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:01 pm
According to Elder Nelson, Mormon god's love is conditional.


Divine Love
Nelson is a theological disaster area.
I think Nelson’s view is probably an inevitable product of the church’s doctrine. There is a saying in Protestant or evangelical circles that says, “The ground is level at the foot of the cross.” In LDS church doctrine, the ground is not level at the threshold of temple.
The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession... The LORD set his love on you and chose you... The LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery. Deut. 7
dastardly stem
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by dastardly stem »

msnobody wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:27 pm
dastardly stem wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:07 am
I’d continue to wonder what to make of gods love when considering those whom he decides to cast out or tells “I never knew you”. Does his love go with them into eternal torment or annihilation? It’s seems pretty odd and perhaps even inconsistent to think god loves everyone. But as I’ve said before and elsewhere, it’s good for believers to ignore teaching or scripture and run with a better god and religion.
I agree with what huckleberry said.

It is my understanding the God allows for free will for his creation, both human and with supernatural beings. It is my understanding that those who wind up in Hell, do so by their own doing. I think it probably does grieves God.
Thanks msnobody. It appears you align with most believers on this. I don’t see how this is a response to what I’ve said. If god is aware there are those who will suffer eternally, and he’s wise enough to know who they are and refuses to give them what they need to believe, assuming it is only he who would know, then it appears he does not love some enough, just as he does not love the devil enough. It appears in all of this he needs some people to suffer eternally. He set it up that way.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
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Kishkumen
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by Kishkumen »

msnobody wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:41 pm
I think Nelson’s view is probably an inevitable product of the church’s doctrine. There is a saying in Protestant or evangelical circles that says, “The ground is level at the foot of the cross.” In LDS church doctrine, the ground is not level at the threshold of temple.
One might also blame the Gospel of John, for that matter. In any case, I don’t think his unfortunate views are inevitable. God may not bless people equally, but God surely loves everyone equally. Nelson is just a poor thinker.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by Kishkumen »

msnobody wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:27 pm
It is my understanding the God allows for free will for his creation, both human and with supernatural beings. It is my understanding that those who wind up in Hell, do so by their own doing. I think it probably does grieves God.
Hell is a false doctrine. It has no solid basis in the Bible.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by msnobody »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:20 pm
msnobody wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:27 pm
It is my understanding the God allows for free will for his creation, both human and with supernatural beings. It is my understanding that those who wind up in Hell, do so by their own doing. I think it probably does grieves God.
Hell is a false doctrine. It has no solid basis in the Bible.
Tell me, then, biblically, what becomes of those who continue to rebel against God until the Last Day?
The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession... The LORD set his love on you and chose you... The LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery. Deut. 7
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by Kishkumen »

msnobody wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:25 pm
Tell me, then, biblically, what becomes of those who continue to rebel against God until the Last Day?
Last day of what? And are you inserting hell so you have an answer to a question you are creating from a partial understanding?
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by dastardly stem »

msnobody wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:25 pm
Kishkumen wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:20 pm


Hell is a false doctrine. It has no solid basis in the Bible.
Tell me, then, biblically, what becomes of those who continue to rebel against God until the Last Day?
Might depend on which part of the Bible you call biblical and which part you don’t.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
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Re: Nelson gives revelation that God loves Mormons more than others...

Post by Kishkumen »

It takes some real stretches based on highly metaphorical language in the Bible to come up with Hell, and the better question would be, “Why would you want to?”

The answer is because humans of limited understanding want to see people they judge to be bad actors receive severe punishment.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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