"what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

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Morley
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by Morley »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:41 pm
Rings true.
Please elaborate. What was your experience as a bishop or church leader, MG?
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by MG 2.0 »

Morley wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:16 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:41 pm
Rings true.
Please elaborate. What was your experience as a bishop or church leader, MG?
I believe that John W and many other honest hearted leaders do their darndest to tread the line between ministerial responsibilities and the law. I don’t envy them. I have not been a Bishop but have been associated with many good men in leadership positions. On the whole I think that they have the best interests of ALL in mind as they perform their responsibilities. I am sure that those in positions of general church leadership have nothing but love/concern for those that fall prey to abuse.

My thinking is that there has been and will continue to be a fair bit of ‘fine tuning’ in respect to the policies and procedures in connection with this problem which has escalated in modern society.

I choose to give the ‘powers that be’ the benefit of a doubt and that they will continue to find that balance between their ministerial duties and the duty to not let an abusive monster rule the day.

Mercy and justice are difficult to calibrate ‘on the ground’. A Bishop both has the responsibility to condemn the sin and where possible bring the sinner to repentance before the Lord and his church while at the same time meting out required punishment and prosecution by the law.

Again, I don’t envy them. But neither do I condemn them. And unfortunately you are also going to have a few rogue Bishops along the way. But that isn’t any reason to tear the whole system down as some might desire.

Regards,
MG
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by Marcus »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:30 am
Morley wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:16 pm


Please elaborate. What was your experience as a bishop or church leader, MG?
I believe that John W and many other honest hearted leaders do their darndest to tread the line between ministerial responsibilities and the law. I don’t envy them. I have not been a Bishop but have been associated with many good men in leadership positions. On the whole I think that they have the best interests of ALL in mind as they perform their responsibilities. I am sure that those I positions of general church leadership have nothing but love/concern for those that fall prey to abuse.
then they need to report abuse to the authorities.
My thinking is that there has been and will continue to be a fair bit of ‘fine tuning’ in respect to the policies and procedures in connection with this problem which has escalated in modern society.
no, "fine tuning " is not necessary. Simply report sexual abuse to the authorities.
I choose to give the ‘powers that be’ the benefit of a doubt and that they will continue to find that balance between their ministerial duties and the duty to not let an abusive monster rule the day.
No, there is no BALANCE required here. Report abuse to the authorities.
Mercy and justice are difficult to calibrate ‘on the ground’.
no they are not. Report abuse to the authorities.
A Bishop both has the responsibility to condemn the sin and where possible bring the sinner to repentance before the Lord and his church while at the same time meting out required punishment and prosecution by the law.
No, not at the same time he doesn't. He needs to report abuse to the authorities, and AFTER those abused are out of harm's way, he can call the sinners to repentance by visiting them in jail.
Again, I don’t envy them. But neither do I condemn them. And unfortunately you are also going to have a few rogue Bishops along the way. But that isn’t any reason to tear the whole system down as some might be wont to be.
You think a "rogue" bishop caused this????? no, the religion you follow has a deep fault that allows this. It is inexcusable and shameful the way the "hotline" operates.
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:47 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:30 am


I believe that John W and many other honest hearted leaders do their darndest to tread the line between ministerial responsibilities and the law. I don’t envy them. I have not been a Bishop but have been associated with many good men in leadership positions. On the whole I think that they have the best interests of ALL in mind as they perform their responsibilities. I am sure that those I positions of general church leadership have nothing but love/concern for those that fall prey to abuse.
then they need to report abuse to the authorities.
My thinking is that there has been and will continue to be a fair bit of ‘fine tuning’ in respect to the policies and procedures in connection with this problem which has escalated in modern society.
no, "fine tuning " is not necessary. Simply report sexual abuse to the authorities.
I choose to give the ‘powers that be’ the benefit of a doubt and that they will continue to find that balance between their ministerial duties and the duty to not let an abusive monster rule the day.
No, there is no BALANCE required here. Report abuse to the authorities.
Mercy and justice are difficult to calibrate ‘on the ground’.
no they are not. Report abuse to the authorities.
A Bishop both has the responsibility to condemn the sin and where possible bring the sinner to repentance before the Lord and his church while at the same time meting out required punishment and prosecution by the law.
No, not at the same time he doesn't. He needs to report abuse to the authorities, and AFTER those abused are out of harm's way, he can call the sinners to repentance by visiting them in jail.
Again, I don’t envy them. But neither do I condemn them. And unfortunately you are also going to have a few rogue Bishops along the way. But that isn’t any reason to tear the whole system down as some might be wont to be.
You think a "rogue" bishop caused this????? no, the religion you follow has a deep fault that allows this. It is inexcusable and shameful the way the "hotline" operates.
Fortunately you are not in a position of authority in the LDS Church. Your black and white view without any tinge of nuance is almost scary.

I’m glad that you are also not a practitioner of the law. Judges are not anywhere as close as you are to ‘lock ‘em’ up and throw away the key’ mentality as you seem to be. You may have done well in the hangin courts of the 1800’s. 🙂

If you were actually able (which I honestly don’t think you are) to read what I said in my previous post in the way in which it was intended, a conversation could actually take place. As it is, I don’t see this going anywhere productive so I’ll let you have your opinionated and narrow minded final say in response to what I believe to be a rather thoughtful post.

Past experience tells me that you are so entrenched in your presuppositions and judgmental ways that there is simply no point to arguing you with the hopes of resolving concerns. You simply want to accentuate the negative. No realistic solutions that work within a ministerial framework…just bloviating (my way or the highway) over that which you see as having only ONE possible solution.

Again, I’m extremely glad that you are where you are and Bishops are where they are.

Regards,
MG
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by Marcus »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:08 am

Fortunately you are not in a position of authority in the LDS Church. Your black and white view without any tinge of nuance is almost scary.
what nuance? in the case in question, a man sexually abused children and babies, and posted it online.
I’m glad that you are also not a practitioner of the law. Judges are not anywhere as close as you are to ‘lock ‘em’ up and throw away the key’ mentality as you seem to be. You may have done well in the hangin courts of the 1800’s. 🙂
what punishment would you find acceptable for a man who tried to rape a baby and posted it online?
If you were actually able (which I honestly don’t think you are) to read what I said in my previous post in the way in which it was intended, a conversation could actually take place. As it is, I don’t see this going anywhere productive so I’ll let you have your opinionated and arrow minded final say in response to what I believe to be a rather thoughtful post.
your post called for a "balance between their ministerial duties and the duty to not let an abusive monster rule the day." There is no "balance". you stop the abusive monster, a concept you seem unable to grasp.
Past experience tells me that you are so entrenched in your presuppositions and judgmental ways that there is simply no point to arguing you with the hopes of resolving concerns. You simply want to accentuate the negative.
that the Mormon church facilitated sexual abuse, again? What positive do you see in that?
No realistic solutions that work within a ministerial framework…just bloviating (my way or the highway) over that which you see as having only ONE possible solution.
no, i am just of the opinion that there is no reason to not report sexual abuse.
Again, I’m extremely glad that you are where you are and Bishops are where they are.
the future victims of sexual abuse note your lack of concern.

but, i will give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't want such heinous sexual predators to roam free because your church has a system that protects the church reputation rather than the victims. to do that, i will invoke dr. moore's explanation:
Dr Moore wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:06 pm
...MG jumps in to troll...And around and around. MG doesn’t give two craps about data, methodology or logic. All he wants is to get people mad. #ignorethetroll
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

MG- Your “church” allowed and allows men who rape babies, children, and others to avoid law enforcement. It literally allows rapists, baby rapists no less, to go scott free and continue to rape babies, children, and others. It is a well-known fact that recidivism among men who sexually assault family members is nearly 100%.

Your church does this. It does it through “revelation”, policy, and politically through legislators, PACs, and lawyers.

Your baby rapist apologetics is disgusting. Your “church” is disgusting.

- Doc
Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dantana
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by dantana »

Possibly, some of us on here have forgotten what it's like to be under the thumb of Mormon Cult Conditioning Syndrome. (mccs) I have. My first instinct is to condemn the bish. Report it you dip-sh-t. But then, as I try to remember the felt sense of mccs, I guess I want to cut them some slack. (not the perp) They are all under it- mccs. The perp - he didn't have to confess, but was awash in his guilt. The bish and the church help line guy, seeing this brothers attempt to atone, and - both underlings under the directive of - defend the image of the church at all costs, for the greater good, chose that course, for their own sense of salvation.

Penalties: Bish and help line guy should have to spend a year reading Mormon board. (this one) Perp: Death by a thousand cuts.

Edit/add: Please ignore all of this.
Last edited by dantana on Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by MG 2.0 »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:33 am
MG- Your “church” allowed and allows men who rape babies, children, and others to avoid law enforcement. It literally allows rapists, baby rapists no less, to go scott free and continue to rape babies, children, and others. It is a well-known fact that recidivism among men who sexually assault family members is nearly 100%.

Your church does this. It does it through “revelation”, policy, and politically through legislators, PACs, and lawyers.

You’re baby rapist apologetics is disgusting. Your “church” is disgusting.

- Doc
At the end of the day we will disagree on whether or not the church supports and condones/encourages the actions of a child molester/abuser.

The church isn’t disgusting. The abusers are.

You seem to forget, for all intents and purposes the ‘church’ is the membership.

Individuals. Each with the right of agency. Individuals.

You almost seem to be taking the ‘Biden speech’ approach. Blanket condemnation.

In this way you are able to condemn a whole institution that you just happen to hate/dislike.

Regards,
MG
Marcus
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by Marcus »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:29 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:33 am
MG- Your “church” allowed and allows men who rape babies, children, and others to avoid law enforcement. It literally allows rapists, baby rapists no less, to go scott free and continue to rape babies, children, and others. It is a well-known fact that recidivism among men who sexually assault family members is nearly 100%.

Your church does this. It does it through “revelation”, policy, and politically through legislators, PACs, and lawyers.

You’re baby rapist apologetics is disgusting. Your “church” is disgusting.

- Doc
At the end of the day we will disagree on whether or not the church supports and condones/encourages the actions of a child molester/abuser.

The church isn’t disgusting. The abusers are.

You seem to forget, for all intents and purposes the ‘church’ is the membership.

Individuals. Each with the right of agency. Individuals.

You almost seem to be taking the ‘Biden speech’ approach. Blanket condemnation.

In this way you are able to condemn a whole institution that you just happen to hate/dislike.

Regards,
MG
Another sidestep of the issue, to accomplish your goal.
Dr Moore wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:06 pm
...MG jumps in to troll...And around and around. MG doesn’t give two craps about data, methodology or logic. All he wants is to get people mad. #ignorethetroll
MG 2.0
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Re: "what the [lds] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:31 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:29 am


At the end of the day we will disagree on whether or not the church supports and condones/encourages the actions of a child molester/abuser.

The church isn’t disgusting. The abusers are.

You seem to forget, for all intents and purposes the ‘church’ is the membership.

Individuals. Each with the right of agency. Individuals.

You almost seem to be taking the ‘Biden speech’ approach. Blanket condemnation.

In this way you are able to condemn a whole institution that you just happen to hate/dislike.

Regards,
MG
Another sidestep of the issue, to accomplish your goal.
Dr Moore wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:06 pm
...MG jumps in to troll...And around and around. MG doesn’t give two craps about data, methodology or logic. All he wants is to get people mad. #ignorethetroll
Then ignore, willya? 🙂

You have not been following your own advice. I would be more than happy to have you ignore me. 😁

If indeed I’m a simple troll, others will see right through it and stop feeding me. And yet, here we are.

I think there’s something else at play…

Regards,
MG
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