Church Sent Patients to Sex Therapist — Even After Being Accused of Abuse

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Church Sent Patients to Sex Therapist — Even After Being Accused of Abuse

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:04 am
1.5. Leaders are given a certain degree of latitude to make mistakes and therefore AT TIMES failing to exercise perfect judgement.
You mean like being a known pederast who molests members, and is subsequently protected by other “leaders”? Cool. I’m sure Jesus is very cool with that policy.
LaVar Withers "Over 125 women and children (some as young as 13 years old) came forward to the Rape Crisis Response Center to tell of his abuse over a thirty year period. Numerous women had told their Bishops of his abuse through the years." “some victims have alleged that Mormon Church officials ignored their pleas for help or actually discouraged them from pursuing charges against the doctor.”
Keep doubling down. [FR2, -cp-]

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
MG 2.0
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Re: Church Sent Patients to Sex Therapist — Even After Being Accused of Abuse

Post by MG 2.0 »

Something things that ought to be said at this point.

I think:

1) It is rather obvious that God gives a LOT of latitude to human beings. Sometimes human beings, including religious leaders, don’t always meet up to God’s expectations.

1.5) That is what the atonement of Jesus Christ is for. He will make everything right. He will right every wrong that human beings inflict upon each other.

2) Large organizations are not always going to do the right thing at the right time because of what might be referred to as bureaucratic inertia.

2.5) Change may be slow as a result.

3) God, knowing the end from the beginning has fail safe mechanisms along the way to bring things to a more perfect state of equilibrium and righteousness.

3.5) That can be a slow process when free agent human beings are involved.

4) We have a natural urge to tell God how to do things. When he doesn’t do things our way we get pissed.

Regards,
MG

P.S. Doc is pissed.
Marcus
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Re: Church Sent Patients to Sex Therapist — Even After Being Accused of Abuse

Post by Marcus »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:48 pm
I do disagree with you, however, in making a direct connection between the fact that church leaders do not always exercise perfect judgement with whether or not the church is led by and instituted by God.

Those two things are not mutually inclusive. They may be exclusive of each other.
Marcus wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:35 pm
so... 'leaders making mistakes by not exercising perfect judgement' has no overlap with 'the lds church being led by and instituted by God.'

Do you realize what you are arguing?
MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:53 pm
Ummm…yes. Otherwise I wouldn’t have said it.
Marcus wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:45 am

ok. so...you think 'leaders making mistakes by not exercising perfect judgement' has no overlap with 'the lds church being led by and instituted by God.'
unreal. Your post below is in direct opposition to what you said above.
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:04 am
1.5. Leaders are given a certain degree of latitude to make mistakes and therefore AT TIMES failing to exercise perfect judgement.This latitude is given by a God who values agency/choice/creativity. Along the way he makes course corrections according to his own mind and will.
Further evidence of this:
marcus wrote: ...Some members seem to feel they have to defend "the Church's ways" in all circumstances. the amount of twisting and turning this causes leaves the members hurt, but it is certainly the only openly accepted way, at least at the moment. It does not reflect well on the lds church, and continues to trap people in defending very bad positions.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Church Sent Patients to Sex Therapist — Even After Being Accused of Abuse

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:09 am
There is no getting around your ceaseless accusations …
Well, stop being a piece of crap who defends an organization that literally protects child rapists. It’s really that simple.
Father of scout reports abuse to LDS Bishop Hales, who was also the Scout Executive for Ore-Ida Council. The father followed up with the Bishop and was told that it was being taken care of. Nothing was ever done, and Larren Arnold remained active for 20 years.
And what do you think this Mormon child molester did next? Do you even give two craps? Because Larren, in short order, was
Arrested for Lewd Conduct with a Minor Under Sixteen (molested a nine year-old boy) in Bannock County.
[FR2, -cp-] Please be sensible with accusations.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
drumdude
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Re: Church Sent Patients to Sex Therapist — Even After Being Accused of Abuse

Post by drumdude »

With Mormonism especially, you begin to realize why Ghandi said "I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Marcus
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Re: Church Sent Patients to Sex Therapist — Even After Being Accused of Abuse

Post by Marcus »

...you want to place limitations on God and how he works in the world. Setting those limitations and ‘dying by the sword’ defending your dogmatic requirements...
How are your rules not also "limitations on God"??
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:15 am
Something things that ought to be said at this point.

I think:

1) It is rather obvious that God gives a LOT of latitude to human beings. Sometimes human beings, including religious leaders, don’t always meet up to God’s expectations.

1.5) That is what the atonement of Jesus Christ is for. He will make everything right. He will right every wrong that human beings inflict upon each other.

2) Large organizations are not always going to do the right thing at the right time because of what might be referred to as bureaucratic inertia.

2.5) Change may be slow as a result.

3) God, knowing the end from the beginning has fail safe mechanisms along the way to bring things to a more perfect state of equilibrium and righteousness.

3.5) That can be a slow process when free agent human beings are involved.

4) We have a natural urge to tell God how to do things. When he doesn’t do things our way we get pissed....
Recall we are talking about how to stop sexual abuse within church settings. Arguing the problem boils down to something like "bureaucratic inertia" is bizarre.
MG 2.0
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Re: Church Sent Patients to Sex Therapist — Even After Being Accused of Abuse

Post by MG 2.0 »

Marcus wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:11 am
Your post below is in direct opposition to what you said above.
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:04 am
1.5. Leaders are given a certain degree of latitude to make mistakes and therefore AT TIMES failing to exercise perfect judgement.This latitude is given by a God who values agency/choice/creativity. Along the way he makes course corrections according to his own mind and will.
No it’s not.

Twist and turn all you want in order to keep your worldview in order.

As in other instances that we could dredge up we are going in circles. It’s not the first time you’ve created a strawman and then twisted my words to fit your argument and predetermined outcome.

Nice try.

I would invite others to go back and read ALL of my posts in this thread, in context. I’ve said what I want to say and will leave it to others to determine whether my arguments/comments are coherent.

I don’t think I’m will to leave that judgement in your hands however. Your track record is less than stellar.

Twist every way you can so that you can remain an atheist in good standing. Your modus operandi is apparent again in this thread.

I understand. You’ve invested a lot. 😉

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
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Re: Church Sent Patients to Sex Therapist — Even After Being Accused of Abuse

Post by MG 2.0 »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:31 am

You defend this.

- Doc
Enough.

I do not condone and never have condoned child rape and/or abuse of any kind.

But I’ve already said that.

Please stop or I will report your abusive language to the moderators.

Thank you.

Regards,
MG
Dr Exiled
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Re: Church Sent Patients to Sex Therapist — Even After Being Accused of Abuse

Post by Dr Exiled »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:14 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:31 am

You defend this.

- Doc
Enough.

I do not condone and never have condoned child rape and/or abuse of any kind.

But I’ve already said that.

Please stop or I will report your abusive language to the moderators.

Thank you.

Regards,
MG
Isn't it correct to say that you support the Church's actions throughout the years with respect to child abuse?
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Church Sent Patients to Sex Therapist — Even After Being Accused of Abuse

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:14 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:31 am

You defend this.

- Doc
Enough.

I do not condone and never have condoned child rape and/or abuse of any kind.

But I’ve already said that.

Please stop or I will report your abusive language to the moderators.

Thank you.

Regards,
MG
Once again MG shows himself to be a liar. Upthread he says he’s done (how many times has he said this on various threads only to turn around and start clucking again?), and yet he’s here, again, defending policies and practices that aid and abet child rape and sexual abuse. He’s butthurt because there’s literally zero moral ground here, and instead of admitting that his precious “church” is wrong and he won’t participate in this evil, he gets mad and lashes out. Take that energy you got there buddy, and turn it on the evil doers in your own house. Pick up that whip and clean house.

But you won’t do that. Because you’re perfectly ok with the status quo, which results in more families being abused by known abusers tracked by the “church” itself.

You have a soul sickness that’s terminal. You’ll die defending this sham. You’ll enable them through your verbal, financial, and physical support. It’s disgusting, and by complicit association you’re dirty.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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