DiscussMormonism.com

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:23 am

malkie wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:13 am

Of course Mormonism replaces that atheistic fear with the fear that if you are not good enough you will lose your family for eternity, and that (speculatively) they will forget all about you so that they can be blissfully happy.

Malkie, I have been exposed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for the 54 years since I was baptized, and I've never heard any Latter-day Saint voice that speculation. In fact I have heard (what might be equally apocryphal) that the only sadness that celestial beings experience is sorrow for all the people they have known that didn't make it to the Celestial Kingdom.

Speculations abound - remember Saturday's Warrior, and Added Upon?

I cannot find any direct reference to sorrow, sadness, or unalloyed happiness or joy in the online descriptions of the Celestial Kingdom on the church website, so I suppose either of us could be closer to the 'truth' than the other. I must admit that I was surprised by my failure - perhaps my google-foo is lacking.

However, that was a minor aside. The fact remains that, unlike some other Christian denominations, Mormonism expressly excludes generally good people from being with their families in the eternities, based on Mormon-specific teachings. as far as I know, many denominations appear to teach the idea that only gross wickedness - meriting being sent to "hell" - will keep family members from being together.

edit - typo

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:36 am

msnobody wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:15 am

The original post was made as a spinoff from KevinSim’s thread Why Do Biblical Christians Think God does Not Inspire TCoJCoLDS. I was hoping to see if KevinSim understands why Evangelical Christians would see the teachings of the LDS church as opposed to the gospel as understood by EV’s, and why EV Christians would view the GA’s as not being inspired by God.

So Evangelical Christians believe God doesn't inspire Latter-day Saint General Authorities because those GA's teach a different gospel than those Christians believe in? Didn't Jesus have a different message from the one most Jews thought their prophets and rabbis taught? Did it follow that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob hadn't inspired Jesus? (This is ignoring the LDS belief that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Either way doesn't change my point.) The bottom line is that just because a messenger gives a group of people a message that's dramatically different from messages that previous messengers gave, does not mean that God didn't inspire the later messenger.

1. Yes
2. I believe they denied Jesus as Messiah
3. I don’t understand this question

Kishkumen wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:54 am

As in not fully articulated. There is nothing in Mormonism close to the great works of theology in orthodox Christianity. An eternal chain of exalted human deities doesn’t really explain much in the end.

You might be right, Kishkumen; I'm not heavily invested in any theory that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is more articulated than Biblical Christianity is. But I'm curious. Does Biblical Christianity really explain a lot in the end? And if so, what does it explain?

Philo Sofee wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:59 am

Why not just ask God to talk to you in person, and forget about a mere book?

There's nothing particularly special about asking God a question about a book. When I talked to God I never mentioned a book. It just seems odd that people put so much energy into opinions on how much we can know about the book, without ever asking God what we can know about it.

Philo Sofee wrote:I may have to ask him to come on my live show...

It might be more productive to ask him if he will come on your live show.

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:45 am

You might be right, Kishkumen; I'm not heavily invested in any theory that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is more articulated than Biblical Christianity is. But I'm curious. Does Biblical Christianity really explain a lot in the end? And if so, what does it explain?

I don’t know what Biblical Christianity is, KevinSim. Is that a term you made up?

Kishkumen wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:27 pm

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:45 am

You might be right, Kishkumen; I'm not heavily invested in any theory that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is more articulated than Biblical Christianity is. But I'm curious. Does Biblical Christianity really explain a lot in the end? And if so, what does it explain?

I don’t know what Biblical Christianity is, KevinSim. Is that a term you made up?

Perhaps it is a term I made up! It's a way I've settled on of talking about non-LDS Christianity without implying that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not part of Christianity. So perhaps a better way of asking my question, Kishkumen, is, does non-LDS Christianity really explain a lot in the end?

msnobody wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:16 am

2. I believe they denied Jesus as Messiah

MsNobody, can we agree that that was a mistake? Can we agree that the vast majority of Jews who called for Jesus to be crucified, were wrong in their belief that Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah? Did they make a mistake about what God had revealed to them about who the Messiah would be? If so, is it impossible that Christianity has also made a mistake about what the Gospel consists of? When Jesus started His ministry, telling the Jews their faith leaders were wrong, those that responded to His message with humility became His disciples, while those who responded to His message with pride had Him killed. So now when Joseph Smith says that Christian faith leaders are wrong, Christians are responding with pride.

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:21 pm

msnobody wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:16 am

2. I believe they denied Jesus as Messiah

MsNobody, can we agree that that was a mistake? Can we agree that the vast majority of Jews who called for Jesus to be crucified, were wrong in their belief that Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah? Did they make a mistake about what God had revealed to them about who the Messiah would be? If so, is it impossible that Christianity has also made a mistake about what the Gospel consists of? When Jesus started His ministry, telling the Jews their faith leaders were wrong, those that responded to His message with humility became His disciples, while those who responded to His message with pride had Him killed. So now when Joseph Smith says that Christian faith leaders are wrong, Christians are responding with pride.

The above is from a “satirical” article written by the author which can be read here:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/1928-cent ... 612062206/

I take it as more cynicism, but the point stands. You have it all assbackwards. Your natural faith has been usurped and supplanted by a Middle Eastern faith. You think you have the high ground, but in reality your spirit has been totally and completely dominated by a foreign faith, which is kind of lulzy. Worse, yet. You believe in a cheap copy of a protestant form of Judaism, mixed with Masonic larping. If there were ever a more ridiculous and absurd religion outside of Mormonism, I’d be hard pressed to name it (well, aside from Scientology).

- Doc

I would say that Christianity is just one form of Hellenized Judaism, and Judaism increasingly looks like a Hellenized religion to a degree we have only started to appreciate. Mormonism is just a late variation of Christianity that dips back into the Hellenic spring yet again. It is no more ridiculous than other forms of Judaism and Christianity. Practically everything Mormonism does can be found in other forms of Judaism and Christianity.

KevinSim wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:58 pm

Perhaps it is a term I made up! It's a way I've settled on of talking about non-LDS Christianity without implying that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not part of Christianity. So perhaps a better way of asking my question, Kishkumen, is, does non-LDS Christianity really explain a lot in the end?

There are so many forms of non-LDS Christianity that it would be impossible to cover them all in one general statement and remain accurate.