Colorado shooting suspect appears to be LDS

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IHAQ
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Colorado shooting suspect appears to be LDS

Post by IHAQ »

Media reports Sunday said outgoing Assemblyman Randy Voepel is a grandfather of the 22-year-old man accused of killing five at a Colorado Springs gay nightclub.

The Pulitzer Prize-winning Gazette said its sister paper, the online Denver Gazette, had learned from a relative, who wished to remain anonymous, that the suspect is the grandson of Voepel. That story confirmed an earlier report by Heavy.com that the alleged shooter, Anderson Lee Aldrich, is the son of Laura Voepel, daughter of the former Santee mayor.

Laura Voepel’s LinkedIn profile said she’s worked for nearly five years for a Colorado Springs business.

“There were calls to expel Voepel from the state Assembly after he made comments comparing the January 6 attacks to the Revolutionary War,” said Heavy.com. “Aldrich’s mother, Laura Voepel, has written posts praising Randy Voepel on Facebook and confirming he is her father.”

The New York Times said Sunday that a man with the same name and age as the club shooting suspect was arrested in June 2021 after a possible bomb threat in a Colorado Springs suburb.
https://timesofsandiego.com/crime/2022/ ... dy-voepel/

The suspects mother is clearly Mormon (see Linked In referenced in the article).

A penny for Elder Hollands thoughts on his (and Oaks' and Maxwells') musket fire talk right now...
Three years later, 2017, Elder Dallin H. Oaks, not then but soon to be in the First Presidency where he would sit, only one chair — one heartbeat — away from the same position President Nelson now has, quoted our colleague Elder Neal A. Maxwell who had said:

“In a way[,] [Latter-day Saint] scholars at BYU and elsewhere are a little bit like the builders of the temple in Nauvoo, who worked with a trowel in one hand and a musket in the other. Today scholars building the temple of learning must also pause on occasion to defend the kingdom. I personally think,” Elder Maxwell went on to say, “this is one of the reasons the Lord established and maintains this university. The dual role of builder and defender is unique and ongoing. I am grateful we have scholars today who can handle, as it were, both trowels and muskets.”

Then Elder Oaks said challengingly, “I would like to hear a little more musket fire from this temple of learning.” He said this in a way that could have applied to a host of topics in various departments, but the one he specifically mentioned was the doctrine of the family and defending marriage as the union of a man and a woman.
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/08 ... ill-stand/
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Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: Colorado shooting suspect appears to be LDS

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

I hope Elder Oaks is proud. Is this enough musket fire for you Elder Oaks?

I can see the families of the victims filing a lawsuit against Oaks and the Church.
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Wonhyo
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Re: Colorado shooting suspect appears to be LDS

Post by Wonhyo »

Holland's "musket fire" speech put into words some of the anxieties and anger that many Mormons (including #DezNat Mormons) feel from the pressures on the church by the unholy outside world. Problem is, those pressures are often distorted beyond recognition, like a fun house mirror. (We Mormons have some truly tragic examples of this, which have led to horrific outcomes, in our short history.)

A guest editorial from one of the daily newspapers out in Utah, the Ogden Standard Examiner, illustrates Holland's cartoonish overreaction to pressure from the outside world, which happens all-too-often in Mormonism:
Perhaps the most insensitive and hurtful part of the address was his criticism of former Valedictorian Matt Easton and his 2019 graduation speech.

“If a student commandeers a graduation podium intended to represent everyone getting diplomas in order to announce his personal sexual orientation, what might another speaker feel free to announce the next year until eventually anything goes? What might commencement come to mean — or not mean — if we push individual license over institutional dignity for very long? Do we simply end up with more divisiveness in our culture than we already have — and we already have too much everywhere,” Holland said.

After hearing such a scathing critique, we immediately went back to Matt’s 2019 address and listened to every word of it. Far from “commandeering a graduate podium,” Matt’s words (which were pre-approved by BYU itself) were faith affirming, uplifting and filled with gratitude for the wonderful experience that BYU had provided him. For Elder Holland to say that Matt “commandeered” the ceremony to push individual license over institutional dignity was a blatant mischaracterization.

In fact, there were only two lines in the entire speech about Matt’s sexual orientation. Furthermore, Elder Holland went on to imply that Matt’s behaviors could only lead to more divisiveness, when in reality, Matt’s speech was filled with nothing but loving, unifying and encouraging sentiment. For someone in Elder Holland’s position to call out a student to the entire Church, misrepresent that student’s words and put blame on that student for fostering divisiveness is blatantly inappropriate.

https://www.standard.net/opinion/guest- ... eing-felt/
Did Holland overreact? Hell, yes. But to his strident listeners, he at that moment was a general prosecuting a righteous war. After all, without an enemy to identify and fight against, there can be no theological heroes in Mormonism or any other tradition.
"There is no path to happiness. Happiness is the path.”
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Re: Colorado shooting suspect appears to be LDS

Post by drumdude »

“DCP” wrote: The Brethren are focused, though, on the preservation of religious freedom, both for our own church and for other faith communities. And, quite accurately, they see religious liberty as under siege. (See, for example, here and here and here.). And a major factor in that siege is ascendancy of an LGBTQ+ movement that has rolled from victory to victory and that is clearly ambitious for, as it were, further territory. The leaders of the Church are trying to preserve the rights of groups that dissent from the rising orthodoxy on gender issues. And they seek to do it not through strife and noise and a never-ending cultural war, but through honest, mutually respectful conversation, seeking common ground and compromise. This, too, has been a major focus of speeches over the past several years by a number of the General Authorities, perhaps most notably by President Dallin H. Oaks
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Dr. Sunstoned
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Re: Colorado shooting suspect appears to be LDS

Post by Dr. Sunstoned »

Oaks, Holland et al preach fear. Fear of the gays, fear of porn, and fear of their right to discriminate being checked. Fear is a negative emotion. It doesn't edify or enlighten. It leaves people agitated, frustrated and afraid. I don't know what the cause and effect was between these leadership rants and the terrible tragedy in Colorado. But at the very least it should serve as a wake up call to the Brethren to lighten up on the fear mongering and hate and perhaps take a step or two closer to the New Testament when preparing their talks. After all, they are suppose to be leading a christian church and not a alt-right political group.
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Gadianton
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Re: Colorado shooting suspect appears to be LDS

Post by Gadianton »

Interesting article by DCP drumdude.

He concedes that he's changed his position.
DCP wrote:Whatever church leaders and I might have preferred, legal recognition of same-sex marriage is now a fait accompli in the United States and in many other countries. And it’s not a matter only of legality but one of a rapid and dramatic sea-change in popular opinion.
DCP wrote: Church leaders, who, they say, will change (and have in fact changed) every foundational belief, claim, and practice of the Restoration in order to preserve their wealth and power
Well yes, we will say that because that's what's happening. A dramatic sea-change in popular opinion means big money is on the line.

DCP tied himself into knots preaching how the definition of words can't change and brought up the example of calling a tail on a dog a fifth leg -- how confusing! Now he's essentially saying the tail has been called a fifth leg, and he's saying, "it's water under the bridge" -- apparently the world didn't implode, and it's not nearly the big deal he made it out to be.

The simple fact is the more popular it becomes the more pressure on the Church for discriminating. The more the Church stands up for its old-fashioned beliefs, the more LGBQ+ people will move into Salt Lake City and continue transforming the culture.

The Church is buckling. DCP is buckling big time because he's allowed for the definition of a word to change, something he's always forbidden to happen.
drumdude
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Re: Colorado shooting suspect appears to be LDS

Post by drumdude »

If they continue their anti-LGBT rhetoric, they're going to continue hemorrhaging young members. They've realized they lost the battle for hearts and minds. It's become so bad that DCP has admitted defeat on the issue on the church's behalf.

The billion dollar question - is the church going soft on LGBT going to stem the tide of Mormons leaving their religion behind? I highly doubt it.
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Re: Colorado shooting suspect appears to be LDS

Post by Jersey Girl »

Man who helped stop the Club Q shooter: I’m just a normal guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3_LpTmUb9M
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IHAQ
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Re: Colorado shooting suspect appears to be LDS

Post by IHAQ »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:44 am
“DCP” wrote: The Brethren are focused, though, on the preservation of religious freedom, both for our own church and for other faith communities. And, quite accurately, they see religious liberty as under siege. (See, for example, here and here and here.). And a major factor in that siege is ascendancy of an LGBTQ+ movement that has rolled from victory to victory and that is clearly ambitious for, as it were, further territory. The leaders of the Church are trying to preserve the rights of groups that dissent from the rising orthodoxy on gender issues. And they seek to do it not through strife and noise and a never-ending cultural war, but through honest, mutually respectful conversation, seeking common ground and compromise. This, too, has been a major focus of speeches over the past several years by a number of the General Authorities, perhaps most notably by President Dallin H. Oaks
I'm sorry to say that DCP is (knowingly?) presenting a false narrative about the Brethren. It's not all about religious freedom, and it's not about respectful conversation, seeking common ground, nor compromise. Oh sure, the PR spin has improved since Proposition 8 (DCP forgets to reference that aggressive, disrespectful and uncompromising debacle in his blog piece), but the underlying position of actively fighting against same sex marriage for non members has not. This is Oaks at General Conference April 2022...
That is also why the Lord has required His restored Church to oppose social and legal pressures to retreat from His doctrine of marriage between a man and a woman, to oppose changes that homogenize the differences between men and women or confuse or alter gender.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng
Oaks is clear - this is a fight to oppose same sex marriage for non members, to oppose non members recognising trans gender. This isn't about protecting the Church's right to hate and discriminate, it's about projecting that hate and discrimination so that it has influence outside the jurisdiction of the Church.
IHAQ
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Re: Colorado shooting suspect appears to be LDS

Post by IHAQ »

Days after a gunman shot and killed five people inside a Colorado nightclub, officials with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints condemned the attack and the suspect.

Anderson Lee Aldrich, 22, faces murder and hate crime charges following the attack Saturday night at Club Q, a gay nightclub in Colorado Springs. Aldrich allegedly used an AR-15 style semiautomatic weapon during the shootings before he was subdued by two bystanders.

According to a church spokesperson, Aldrich was listed on roles of the Church, but had "not been active in some time."
https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-new ... -in-church

Oh so now the Church wants to make a distinction between the claimed membership and the number of active members.
“The senseless act of violence in Colorado Springs is of great sadness and concern to us. We are greatly troubled by any violence in our communities and condemn most especially violent acts that are the result of intolerance against any of God's children," the statement read. "We join with others in mourning the loss of those whose lives were taken and offer prayers of comfort and deepest condolences to their loved ones. We also pray for healing for the survivors of this shocking shooting and express our love to them."
...but...
the Lord has required His restored Church to oppose social and legal pressures to retreat from His doctrine of marriage between a man and a woman, to oppose changes that homogenize the differences between men and women or confuse or alter gender.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng
...and...
The dual role of builder and defender is unique and ongoing. I am grateful we have scholars today who can handle, as it were, both trowels and muskets.”
https://latterdaysaintmag.com/elder-hol ... hey-heard/

The Church has never apologised for its actions on Proposition 8. It drew the battle lines and agitated its members into fighting against LGBTQ rights and LGBTQ generally. They really shouldn't be surprised when some members (who may well be mentally unstable) take their exhortations too far. Incidents like this are predictable when one uses "war footing" language when preaching homophobic doctrines to a wide cross section of the membership in a gun-toting country.

Here's some background on Oaks, currently in the First Presidency, and the guy who said in April the Lord requires his church to actively battle against same sex marriage:
Under Oaks, a system of surveillance and searches of dorms of problem students, including suspected homosexuals, was implemented.[38] This included electronic recording devices which BYU Security Chief Robert Kelshaw confirmed in 1975 had been planted on students to gather information. In reference to the widespread campaign to find homosexuals among BYU students, Oaks stated, "Two influences we wish to exclude from the BYU community are active homosexuals and drug users, and these subjects are therefore among those with which our security force is concerned."[39]

Four years later BYU's newspaper reported Oaks asking BYU security to be "especially watchful" for any student homosexual infractions.[40]: 126 [41] BYU's security force conducted stake outs looking for license plates of BYU students at gay bars in Salt Lake City.[38][42][43] They also placed fake contact advertisements in a gay Salt Lake City newspaper to entrap gay students.[44][42][39] This resulted in the arrest of David Chipman who was no longer a BYU student at that time.[40]: 126 [45][46] However, the director of public relations for the university stated that by 1979 Oaks ordered BYU security to stop surveilling gay bars and to cease posting entrapment advertisements.[42]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Y ... rveillance

How is he in one of the most senior positions of the Church after that?
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