BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
IHAQ
God
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:00 am

Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by IHAQ »

It turns out that Buswell had recently opened up to his bishop, someone he saw as a peer and a friend, about concerns he had around the church’s policies regarding the LGBTQ community. The conversation had been a casual hallway chat that, according to Buswell, ended with him reassuring his bishop that he felt “confident I’ll figure it out, and it’s not a big deal.”

That conversation had been fresh on the bishop’s mind, the bishop told his congregant, when he had completed the form. “So, he told me, ‘I said Brother Buswell has expressed some concerns’” around the issue, but that ‘”...he is honest in his desire to understand the Lord and will come to the right decision on this.’”
So the Bishop can breach penitent privilege when it suits. Just not when a child is being abused.

Can the Bishop be sued by the ward member who lost their job over something he, the Bishop, said? Does it amount to libel?

“Libel is a method of defamation expressed by print, writing, pictures, signs, effigies, or any communication embodied in physical form that is injurious to a person's reputation, exposes a person to public hatred, contempt or ridicule, or injures a person in his/her business or profession.”
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/libel
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5810
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by Moksha »

IHAQ wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:25 pm
Can the Bishop be sued by the ward member who lost their job over something he, the Bishop, said?
The bishop is simply doing his job of having whole families leave the Church. It is part of his heavenly intuition.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 9568
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by Res Ipsa »

IHAQ wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:25 pm
It turns out that Buswell had recently opened up to his bishop, someone he saw as a peer and a friend, about concerns he had around the church’s policies regarding the LGBTQ community. The conversation had been a casual hallway chat that, according to Buswell, ended with him reassuring his bishop that he felt “confident I’ll figure it out, and it’s not a big deal.”

That conversation had been fresh on the bishop’s mind, the bishop told his congregant, when he had completed the form. “So, he told me, ‘I said Brother Buswell has expressed some concerns’” around the issue, but that ‘”...he is honest in his desire to understand the Lord and will come to the right decision on this.’”
So the Bishop can breach penitent privilege when it suits. Just not when a child is being abused.

Can the Bishop be sued by the ward member who lost their job over something he, the Bishop, said? Does it amount to libel?

“Libel is a method of defamation expressed by print, writing, pictures, signs, effigies, or any communication embodied in physical form that is injurious to a person's reputation, exposes a person to public hatred, contempt or ridicule, or injures a person in his/her business or profession.”
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/libel
It’s not a breach of the privilege. In the US, libel applies only to false statements of fact. The Bishop appears to have been factually accurate. Employment in Idaho is almost certainly at will, so the employer would have the right to terminate the employment.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 5015
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by Philo Sofee »

Well.....I mean....... looking on the bright side, Shulem and Consiglieri and I can now apply for jobs that have opened up....
IHAQ
God
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:00 am

Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by IHAQ »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:59 am
It’s not a breach of the privilege.
Thanks for answering those points Res.

I did read this:
“A pastor has a duty to hold in confidence any information obtained during a counseling session. A pastor who violates this trust might be on the losing end of a suit for an invasion of privacy or defamation.”
So the one situation outlined above does seem to qualify as the Bishop violating trust.
User avatar
Kishkumen
God
Posts: 6121
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by Kishkumen »

I just realized that one of my family members is quoted in this article! Wow! Amazing what a small world Mormonism makes.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
User avatar
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 9568
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by Res Ipsa »

IHAQ wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:19 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:59 am
It’s not a breach of the privilege.
Thanks for answering those points Res.

I did read this:
“A pastor has a duty to hold in confidence any information obtained during a counseling session. A pastor who violates this trust might be on the losing end of a suit for an invasion of privacy or defamation.”
So the one situation outlined above does seem to qualify as the Bishop violating trust.
Different context. The Bishop referred to a conversation in the hallway — not a counseling session. Also, The instructor was requesting an endorsement from the Bishop to use to meet an employment requirement, which doesn’t involve the same privacy expectations as a confession or a counseling session.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5810
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by Moksha »

Apologetic Bird wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:49 pm
The bishop is simply doing his job of having whole families leave the Church. It is part of his heavenly intuition.
You misunderstand, the Church is actively looking for ways to garner bad publicity. This firing for insufficient scrupulosity will fill that bill for years to come.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
Dr. Sunstoned
CTR B
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:59 am

Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by Dr. Sunstoned »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:19 am
Well.....I mean....... looking on the bright side, Shulem and Consiglieri and I can now apply for jobs that have opened up....
I knew there had to be a silver lining somewhere. Blessed day!
IHAQ
God
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:00 am

Re: BYU-Idaho Instructors Fired For Failing Ecclesiastical Clearance.

Post by IHAQ »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:49 am
IHAQ wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:19 am
Thanks for answering those points Res.

I did read this:
“A pastor has a duty to hold in confidence any information obtained during a counseling session. A pastor who violates this trust might be on the losing end of a suit for an invasion of privacy or defamation.”
So the one situation outlined above does seem to qualify as the Bishop violating trust.
Different context. The Bishop referred to a conversation in the hallway — not a counseling session. Also, The instructor was requesting an endorsement from the Bishop to use to meet an employment requirement, which doesn’t involve the same privacy expectations as a confession or a counseling session.
From the article:
It turns out that Buswell had recently opened up to his bishop, someone he saw as a peer and a friend, about concerns he had around the church’s policies regarding the LGBTQ community. The conversation had been a casual hallway chat that, according to Buswell, ended with him reassuring his bishop that he felt “confident I’ll figure it out, and it’s not a big deal.”
That’s not a request for endorsement, that’s a ward member seeking private counsel from their Bishop. It’s arguable that the location, and lack of formality are immaterial.
Post Reply