What exactly Is Wrong with Polygamy anyway?

[Doctor Steuss]

I realize that trying to reduce relationships into a little idiom of sorts is a fool’s errand (which is why I am bravely blazing forward in doing it)…

I don’t remember who said it to me (probably my dad), but I was once told that healthy marriages generally require a 60/40 split between the partners, with each partner trying to be the 60%. The math doesn’t really work out too well when there’s one person always getting more than 100%, and two-or-more people who never will.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

On this forum every once in a while someone will mention polygamy in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as if that's a guaranteed way of scoring points against that church. I personally have no desire whatsoever to be married to more women than just my one wife, but if three adults (of any gender combination) want to join into a marriage relationship, why should anyone else care? I heard one source say polygamy is bad because it exploits women. Why is it that a man marrying two women means he's exploiting women, but another man marrying just one woman means he is not exploiting women?

Have you thought about the commoditization of women, the psychological and emotional stresses of divided intimacy and resources, and the inevitable problems of excess males unattached from familial devotion? What would be your solution for the downsides of polygyny?



- Doc

[KevinSim]

Have you thought about the commoditization of women, the psychological and emotional stresses of divided intimacy and resources, and the inevitable problems of excess males unattached from familial devotion?

Doc, what exactly do you mean by "the commoditization of women"? And why is it any more likely to happen with two wives than it is with one wife? The website at "https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricia_Ireland" says of prominent feminist (and bisexual) Patricia Ireland that she is sexually active with both a woman and her current husband. Do you suspect that there is commoditization in that three-way relationship? What's the essential difference between it and a marriage between a man and two heterosexual women?

What would be your solution for the downsides of polygyny?

Are any of those downsides inherent to polygyny? There wouldn't be an excess of males if polygamous men were limited to two wives and less than half of males participated. Are divided intimacy and resources worse than the status quo, with a significant number of women who want that intimacy but will never get it, and who will never have resources more than their own? The Gospel Topics essay on polygamy points out that while the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy, virtually everyone who wanted to be married was married. That's not true today.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Have you thought about the commoditization of women, the psychological and emotional stresses of divided intimacy and resources, and the inevitable problems of excess males unattached from familial devotion?

Doc, what exactly do you mean by "the commoditization of women"? And why is it any more likely to happen with two wives than it is with one wife? The website at "https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricia_Ireland" says of prominent feminist (and bisexual) Patricia Ireland that she is sexually active with both a woman and her current husband. Do you suspect that there is commoditization in that three-way relationship? What's the essential difference between it and a marriage between a man and two heterosexual women?

What would be your solution for the downsides of polygyny?

Are any of those downsides inherent to polygyny? There wouldn't be an excess of males if polygamous men were limited to two wives and less than half of males participated. Are divided intimacy and resources worse than the status quo, with a significant number of women who want that intimacy but will never get it, and who will never have resources more than their own? The Gospel Topics essay on polygamy points out that while the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy, virtually everyone who wanted to be married was married. That's not true today.

-_-

Morms gon’ morm.

- Doc

[Meadowchik]

On this forum every once in a while someone will mention polygamy in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as if that's a guaranteed way of scoring points against that church. I personally have no desire whatsoever to be married to more women than just my one wife, but if three adults (of any gender combination) want to join into a marriage relationship, why should anyone else care? I heard one source say polygamy is bad because it exploits women. Why is it that a man marrying two women means he's exploiting women, but another man marrying just one woman means he is not exploiting women?

Coercive polygamy is the issue with Mormonism.

[huckelberry]

Are any of those downsides inherent to polygyny? There wouldn't be an excess of males if polygamous men were limited to two wives and less than half of males participated. Are divided intimacy and resources worse than the status quo, with a significant number of women who want that intimacy but will never get it, and who will never have resources more than their own? The Gospel Topics essay on polygamy points out that while the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy, virtually everyone who wanted to be married was married. That's not true today.

arithmetic?

A group with 100 men and 100 women and 40 men had two wives leaves 20 women for the 60 men. I suppose if it is just a very small portion of the men who have two wives then the disparity might just be overlooked.

[Physics Guy]

Mormon polygamy wasn't a few enthusiastically consenting polyamorous relationships. It was an officially promoted social norm that pushed all girls toward early marriages with older men who would then keep on marrying more young girls as the first ones aged. As I've explained, the large age discrepancy was a mathematically necessary feature of the system.

Young girls marrying older men who already have other wives, because that is the social norm, are unlikely to be doing so as a free and informed choice. These girls will furthermore not have had the opportunity to gain knowledge and skills which would make them equal partners with their much more experienced husbands. They can do manual labour and generate babies, while their shared husband makes all the decisions. This systematic society-wide power imbalance, and not the mere multiplicity of partners itself, was how Mormon polygamy treated women as higher-grade farm animals rather than people.

I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow.

[Physics Guy]

A group with 100 men and 100 women and 40 men had two wives leaves 20 women for the 60 men.

In a booming population with a broad demographic pyramid, 40 of each of the 100 men and women may be over 25, 40 are between 15 and 25, and 20 are between 13 and 15. Children under 13 are not counted.

Men marry at 25 or older, women at 15. All the 80 women over 15 are married to all the 40 men over 25. The large age imbalance, with the demographic ratio of a growing population, is the only way to make the arithmetic work. I learned this point from Dr. Moore here, a couple of years ago.

[huckelberry]

A group with 100 men and 100 women and 40 men had two wives leaves 20 women for the 60 men.

In a booming population with a broad demographic pyramid, 40 of each of the 100 men and women may be over 25, 40 are between 15 and 25, and 20 are between 13 and 15. Children under 13 are not counted.

Men marry at 25 or older, women at 15. All the 80 women over 15 are married to all the 40 men over 25. The large age imbalance, with the demographic ratio of a growing population, is the only way to make the arithmetic work. I learned this point from Dr. Moore here, a couple of years ago.

Physics Guy , i think I appreciate the point you are making here. I might note you are looking at only two wives which is what was suggested above but not the Utah norm. My math is very rusty but I think you are looking at a population growth very close to all couples having a child every year.

[KevinSim]

There is a bit of irony about the Church holding itself out as a staunch advocate for man-woman marriage when they still hold to the concept of polygamy.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also disavows all forms of racism. Moksha, I think you should allow room for organizations to change their ways when they try to. The form of polygamy that the LDS Church currently practices is entirely consistent with the man-woman marriage the weight of the United States government imposed on it a hundred years ago. Only one man is married to only one woman while they are both alive.