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"An unexpected journey from the Latter-day Saints to Catholicism"

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:24 am
by IHAQ
After high school, Christiansen spent two formative years as a missionary. “It felt like you were living in the Book of Acts,” he said. “I spent every day, all day, stopping every person on the street, knocking on doors, trying to convince people of the truth of my faith.” Though he faced a lot of rejection, when there were successes, he felt even more affirmed. “LDS missionaries will stop in the middle of the road and pray about which street (they) should go down,” he said. “And when those things pan out, it really reinforces in your mind that God is leading you to all these people.”

When he returned to the U.S., he met his wife, Carly, and they married in 2008. “My wife comes from an equally devout LDS home and our religion was super important to us,” he said. “We volunteered on top of school and work and having kids.” They had two children while Christiansen earned his undergraduate degree at Southern Utah University in Cedar City and two more while he was in law school at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. They now have seven children: Raymond, 13, Virginia, 12, Rex, 10, Goldie, 8, Opal, 3, Peter, 1, and Linus, a newborn.

“Things were happy,” said Christiansen. But in law school, things started to unravel. The stress of studying was difficult enough. But then he was called to a new leadership position in the church. “When you’re called, there’s a ceremony where they put their hands on your head and they pronounce an extemporaneous blessing upon you, believed by everybody there to be what God is saying to you. This (church leader) made some really specific promises to me. It gave me a lot of comfort.”
https://www.catholicherald.com/article/ ... tholicism/
So far so good...
But when those promises about what he would accomplish in law school didn’t come to pass, Christiansen started to doubt. “It was really devastating and it caused a huge amount of cognitive dissonance,” he said. At the same time, a number of prominent members of the LDS church resigned their memberships due to historical and doctrinal issues with Mormon history. So, for the first time, Christiansen decided to research the life of founder Joseph Smith.
He's about to peek behind the curtain...
Learning more about Smith’s participation in folk magic and treasure digging as well as his extreme polygamous lifestyle deeply concerned Christiansen. But overall, it was knowing that the scholarly biographies he read painted a more believable picture of the founding of Mormonism than he ever had received growing up.

“You’re taught a particular narrative in the LDS church and there are maybe a few things here and there that don’t quite make sense, but you don’t think about them a whole lot,” he said. “After doing all the reading, (I was) presented with a coherent narrative that explained things better.”

In 2015, he told his wife that he no longer believed. He continued to take his children to church with her, but it was hard. “It’s a really unpleasant time to think about because my entire universe was just ripped out from under me,” he said. “You feel lied to, you feel silly for having believed. On top of that, I’m married to a devout woman and she’s raising our children in the LDS church. It became increasingly difficult as my children were growing and I would hear them being taught things that I knew were not even arguably true.”
There's no way to put the toothpaste back into the tube.
Though he no longer considered himself Mormon, he still thought of himself as Christian, and one day he picked up a book of the writings of the early Church Fathers. “I thought it would be interesting to see what early Christians believed and that I (could) pick and choose a few things they believed and build my own beliefs,” he said. “I was shocked to find that all these people were Catholic, or seemed like something really close to Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy. That really bothered me because it was not what I was expecting to find. One issue that touched me was the Real Presence. It seemed really obvious to me that whether I believed it or not, these people did.”

That discovery led to a year of intense research into Catholicism. At that point, the family had moved to Northern Virginia for Christiansen’s job and he decided to go to St. Rita Church in Alexandria for his first Mass. “It was so powerful and moving to me. It was really like being transported to another universe,” he said. “And in a way it was very different from the kind of emotionalism of Mormonism. There was something so rooted and ancient about Catholic liturgy.”

In 2018, Christiansen resigned his membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and was baptized at St. Rita. His family was there to witness it. “In (my wife’s) mind, it was not ideal but she has said, ‘It felt like I got my husband back.’ She sensed that this was a good thing for me,” said Christiansen.

At the start of the coronavirus pandemic two years later, Carly began to watch Mass online with her husband. Their children also started at St. Rita School. Gradually, they all decided to become Catholic. His wife was baptized with their newborn son, Peter Ambrose, in 2021.

Ten years ago, Christiansen would never have dreamed that he would become Catholic, let alone that his wife and children would, too. “I couldn’t think of anything crazier,” he said. “Sometimes God works in our lives in ways that are difficult to see in the moment, in very unexpected ways.”
I think this is why apologetics is an unwitting friendly fire exercise. Apologetics is trying to douse the flames of inquisitiveness with more information, but providing more information simply fans the flames.

Re: "An unexpected journey from the Latter-day Saints to Catholicism"

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:32 pm
by dastardly stem
One of these days, he’ll be sitting there wondering, “wait a minute…now why is this a lie?” From Mormon to catholic to….


Ah well life…it takes us on journeys…sometimes difficult and rocky, other time easy and smooth, we might as well get used to it and learn to enjoy it as we can.

Re: "An unexpected journey from the Latter-day Saints to Catholicism"

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:46 pm
by Kishkumen
I can see the appeal in some ways. If you want to belong to one of the unbroken links leading back to the earliest Christianity, you have to join the Orthodox or the Catholic faith. The rest are all knockoffs of one stripe of the another. And, for people of Western European background, Catholicism is more familiar. We know much more about the Pope than the Patriarchs of the Orthodox Church. Catholicism has a much bigger footprint in the US.

And then . . .

Many US Catholics are crazy conservatives who participate all the same extreme Republican causes that the Mormons do.

Their record on child abuse is much worse and longer standing than Mormonism's.

If you think Mormonism has been a colonial religion, man, wow, Catholicism and forced conversion of indigenous peoples.

Vatican finances are incredibly corrupt. Mormon finances of today look squeaky clean by comparison.

Yes, Joseph Smith was dodgy in a number of ways, but have you read the biographies of some of those popes?

Conversion to Catholicism . . . .

OK?!?!!?!?!?!?

Re: "An unexpected journey from the Latter-day Saints to Catholicism"

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:13 pm
by huckelberry
Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:46 pm
I can see the appeal in some ways. If you want to belong to one of the unbroken links leading back to the earliest Christianity, you have to join the Orthodox or the Catholic faith. The rest are all knockoffs of one stripe of the another. And, for people of Western European background, Catholicism is more familiar. We know much more about the Pope than the Patriarchs of the Orthodox Church. Catholicism has a much bigger footprint in the US.

And then . . .

Many US Catholics are crazy conservatives who participate all the same extreme Republican causes that the Mormons do.

Their record on child abuse is much worse and longer standing than Mormonism's.

If you think Mormonism has been a colonial religion, man, wow, Catholicism and forced conversion of indigenous peoples.

Vatican finances are incredibly corrupt. Mormon finances of today look squeaky clean by comparison.

Yes, Joseph Smith was dodgy in a number of ways, but have you read the biographies of some of those popes?

Conversion to Catholicism . . . .

OK?!?!!?!?!?!?
I feel like replying to Kishkumens list. Yet his list may well summarize the reasons I am not Catholic despite my attending many Catholic services. I pretty much believe a Catholicism seen as congregation.

Authority centered with limited power in the priest (derived from the congregation). It is meant to be a light to the world not a power nexus. (That is rather hybrid with reformed thinking of course.)

1 There are crazy conservatives in all groups including atheists. Catholicism has some well developed liberal thinking, a tradition of it.
2 Child abuse, yes the combination of sex repression and exaggerated authority breeds problems.
3 Forced conversion. Catholicism is old and widespread with a history linked to peoples fighting over political power and or strategies to establish peace. (One can find good bad and terrible strategies in the history.)
4 Money and power, I thought all Catholics understand some dead popes to be in hell.

Re: "An unexpected journey from the Latter-day Saints to Catholicism"

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:43 pm
by Kishkumen
huckelberry wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:13 pm
I feel like replying to Kishkumens list. Yet his list may well summarize the reasons I am not Catholic despite my attending many Catholic services. I pretty much believe a Catholicism seen as congregation.

Authority centered with limited power in the priest (derived from the congregation). It is meant to be a light to the world not a power nexus. (That is rather hybrid with reformed thinking of course.)

1 There are crazy conservatives in all groups including atheists. Catholicism has some well developed liberal thinking, a tradition of it.
2 Child abuse, yes the combination of sex repression and exaggerated authority breeds problems.
3 Forced conversion. Catholicism is old and widespread with a history linked to peoples fighting over political power and or strategies to establish peace. (One can find good bad and terrible strategies in the history.)
4 Money and power, I thought all Catholics understand some dead popes to be in hell.
Thanks, huckelberry! I am glad you pushed back. I have felt very interested in the Catholic Church, but I have major reservations. I will push back on your pushback.

1. True, but the considerable institutional support of those causes from Catholics is really the problem.
2. Yep!
3. Good point. I mostly included this because it is still bad and because of criticism of Mormon colonialism and racism. In this regard people can defend Mormonism as a young Church still grappling with problems Catholics had more time to sort out.
4. Do they? In more than just a “Dante put them there” sense?

Re: "An unexpected journey from the Latter-day Saints to Catholicism"

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:10 am
by huckelberry
Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:43 pm
huckelberry wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:13 pm
I feel like replying to Kishkumens list. Yet his list may well summarize the reasons I am not Catholic despite my attending many Catholic services. I pretty much believe a Catholicism seen as congregation.

Authority centered with limited power in the priest (derived from the congregation). It is meant to be a light to the world not a power nexus. (That is rather hybrid with reformed thinking of course.)

1 There are crazy conservatives in all groups including atheists. Catholicism has some well developed liberal thinking, a tradition of it.
2 Child abuse, yes the combination of sex repression and exaggerated authority breeds problems.
3 Forced conversion. Catholicism is old and widespread with a history linked to peoples fighting over political power and or strategies to establish peace. (One can find good bad and terrible strategies in the history.)
4 Money and power, I thought all Catholics understand some dead popes to be in hell.
Thanks, huckelberry! I am glad you pushed back. I have felt very interested in the Catholic Church, but I have major reservations. I will push back on your pushback.

1. True, but the considerable institutional support of those causes from Catholics is really the problem.
2. Yep!
3. Good point. I mostly included this because it is still bad and because of criticism of Mormon colonialism and racism. In this regard people can defend Mormonism as a young Church still grappling with problems Catholics had more time to sort out.
4. Do they? In more than just a “Dante put them there” sense?
In sober reflection I find I have no way to be sure if all Catholics expect some Popes to be in hell. I suppose a more cautious, we do not know just who is in hell, would be more common. I do think people are aware that there have been some bad individuals who were popes. Might be in hell may be more accurate a reflection.

Some years ago I went through complete instruction course for people considering becoming Catholic. I found it interesting but did not decide to join. I have distant memory of class noting there have been some bad Popes and other individuals in authority. People vary, institution continues.

Colonial, mixed bag. Indian Reservation in my area has primarily Catholic church. Native people in this area in the 19th century found they received more respect from the Catholics than from the other Americans moving into the area.

Re: "An unexpected journey from the Latter-day Saints to Catholicism"

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:01 pm
by Gadianton
As it turned out, one of the guys (and family) who I run into on my walk grew up Mormon and served a mission. Met a Catholic girl, they decided they need to be the same religion, and he had no issues choosing to be Catholic. I think the ability to be a low-key member was the driving force.
“And in a way it was very different from the kind of emotionalism of Mormonism. There was something so rooted and ancient about Catholic liturgy.”
I think DCP's anxiety might drop an order of magnitude if he became Catholic. It's clear he feels at home validated by the inertia of heavy history, tradition, and scholarship, and though he tries, he fails to ape the Church Fathers and the scholarship of old into a pro-faith voice that resonates with Mormonism. Some people might think the Catholic Church is evil, but it's evil in a serious way, whereas Mormonism is evil in a silly way. That constant taunting is always in his head and gets him defensive. If he were part of a faith rooted in the things he admires most, then he'd be more comfortable. Greek Orthodox might be better since he read the Bible in Greek.