The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2022

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Kishkumen
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2022

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Moksha wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:09 am
Perhaps Shirts and Kishkumen could referee this event.
How nice of you, Moksha!
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2022

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Informant wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:15 am
malkie wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:42 am
I don't think I'd call Don an apologist. And I'm not sure about Dan either. Am I wrong?
Not in the derogatory way the term is used here, I suppose not.
Interesting question. I don't think of either of them as apologists, but I don't consider apologist to be a dirty word. Mopologist, on the other hand . . . .
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2022

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Doctor Scratch wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:38 pm
10. DCP Admits that He Failed to Baptize Anyone on His Mission

There have been many times when we've wondered about the fundamental purpose of Mopologetics. Is it really about defending the Church? Or is it instead a means of satisfying the Mopologists' fundamentally sadistic impulses? Something else? The Mopologists themselves--and Dr. Peterson in particular--have said before, during quieter moments, that their purpose is to "create a space for faith." As questionable as this may seem, it's worth pointing out that Dr. Peterson has, on multiple occasions, reflected on his mission experience, and indeed he did so again during 2022, but with a startling revelation--namely, he failed to convert a single person to the Church during his mission. He had other successes (according to him), such as "mopping the floor" with a non-LDS preacher. But actually spreading the Gospel? Not much success. And indeed, this seems indicative of Mopologetics in general: while its most ardent practitioners might *claim* that they are serving Christ and trying to act like good disciples, the truth--and the outcome--says differently.
I don't blame DCP for not having baptized on his mission. There are many missions in which you could go the whole time without a baptism and it wouldn't be your fault. Some places are culturally less open to Mormonism. It is, after all, so American.

But, when we get to the topic of why people engage about Mopologetics, I think it definitely is an indulgence of darker impulses. This is not to say that every apologist has done nothing but engage in Mopologetics. Some do not do it at all. Some only dabble a little. But some superstars of Mopologetics have established a clear pattern of bad behavior that goes up to the present day, and I do think it is something akin to smoking or looking at porn a lot, except that it is a lot more harmful to others, spiritually speaking.

9. Under the Banner of Heaven Infuriates the Mopologists

Unfortunately for the Mopologists, the most important Mormon-related cinematic event of the past few years was not Witnesses. Instead, it was the F/X Network's adaptation of Jon Krakauer's best-selling book, Under the Banner of Heaven which earned an Emmy nomination for Andrew Garfield's performance in the lead role. The attention and success of the miniseries infuriated the Mopologists, who posted reams of criticism of the show, while simultaneously denying up and down that they cared about the show in any way. Interestingly, all of the Mopologetic commentary conveniently omitted a crucial detail from the show--i.e., that the Garfield character's faith is shaken to the core after he is exposed to the Tanners' book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? Trying to cover up the truth yet again, perhaps?
On the one hand, I enjoyed UTBOH as entertainment. But, hell, it sure was goofy in other ways, and what it did best of all was capture the experience of people on the cusp of leaving Mormonism. Garfield's character is a 2000s-era Mormon who discovers the dark underbelly and then judges the entire thing to be terrible. It is like waking up but the nightmare doesn't end. For this reason the movie actually fails to capture Mormonism accurately or the history accurately. Not a knock on the whole thing as bad, but it is only good in certain ways that will have a fairly short shelf life as a work of cinema.
Meanwhile, in September, Interpreter Editor Jeff Lindsay published a piece that rehashed many of the usual Book of Abraham talking points, with a good measure of smear tactics flung in the direction of Dan Vogel and Brian Hauglid. You have to wonder at what point the Mopologists will exhaust their willingness to keep dealing with the "Zombie hell" that is Book of Abraham apologetics.
The Book of Abraham situation is really just sad. It seems like this will be the reef that so many ships of faith get sunk on. What is poignant about it to me is that this moment was always coming. From the moment Joseph Smith took in hand to translate a document that an angel wasn't taking up to heaven, he laid the groundwork for the unraveling of his entire mythos and the organization it was founded upon. I am not saying that this is a good thing or right. Really, it is just sad. He should have been smart enough to burn the damn thing, or maybe just not try to translate it in the first place. I can't really wish he had burned it because it is a rather important example of its kind of Egyptian document. But, whoa, how stupid to let people hold onto evidence that you can't literally translate Egyptian! And then the apologists sank so much time and effort into trying to put lipstick on the pig.

I don't think the Book of Abraham itself is a pig. There are ugly aspects to it, yes. But in other ways it is theologically important to LDS faith. Some of them are cool. The pig is Joseph Smith's ludicrous to the point of self-parody displays of pseudo-prowess in linguistics.

7. The 10th Anniversary of the End of FARMS

The most significant event in Mopologetics remains the end of FARMS, which took place in June of 2012 and continues to haunt the Mopologists in a profound way. The fallout from the ejection of Mopologetics from the Maxwell Institute has been discussed at length elsewhere, and there have not been major new revelations about the events (though Dr. Peterson and other sometimes allude to additional salacious "details"), but this year nonetheless marked the ten-year anniversary of that watershed event.
I will take a break in responses after this, but to this day I think of this event as the crowning achievement of the critics of Mopologetics. It is our collective triumph, and I believe that MDB played an important role in it all. Not a huge role, but a contributing role. The end of FARMS' presence on BYU campus simply was a good thing. Let Interpreter carry on with its cottage industry of pseudo-scholarship and bad book reviews.
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2022

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I think an honorable mention would be Nemo calling Oaks out regarding aversion therapy, and Oaks referring Nemo to FAIR's "independent study."
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2022

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Informant wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:07 am
One point of disagreement, if I may:
No, you may not, go get a real job!
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2022

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Doctor Steuss wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:13 pm
I think an honorable mention would be Nemo calling Oaks out regarding aversion therapy, and Oaks referring Nemo to FAIR's "independent study."
Excellent nomination. It shows how the Brethren trust FAIR's ability to obfuscate and serve as a smoke screen.
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2022

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'Tis a pleasure to read your annual list, Dr. Scratch! I had hopes that a remake of Silent Night, Deadly Night would be released this year, but no dice. I am pleased that Silent Night, Deadly Night: The Game should be under my tree this year.
7. The 10th Anniversary of the End of FARMS

The most significant event in Mopologetics remains the end of FARMS, which took place in June of 2012 and continues to haunt the Mopologists in a profound way. The fallout from the ejection of Mopologetics from the Maxwell Institute has been discussed at length elsewhere, and there have not been major new revelations about the events (though Dr. Peterson and other sometimes allude to additional salacious "details"), but this year nonetheless marked the ten-year anniversary of that watershed event.
Speaking of the end of FARMS, I listened to Elder Robert Gay's address at the Interpreter Foundation's tenth-birthday party at the Riverside Country Club. A few excerpts from the address:
Lynette [Gay's spouse] and I were in the airport traveling somewhere when we ran into Dan and Debbie, and it was right at the tumultuous turning point at Brigham Young University, and they weren't quite sure where the next steps were.

And it's just daunting and outstanding to see where it is today. I mean congratulations — and congratulations to all of you who are the volunteers and for all the service that you have done. . . .

I have to say, Dan, that as I thought about all this I also was reminded of a passage in Second Nephi.

Lehi is talking to his son Jacob and he says, "And behold, thou hast suffered afflictions and much sorrow because of the rudeness of thy brethren. Nevertheless thou knowest the greatness of God and He shall consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain."

We all know what you've been through, and it hasn't been easy, but in the world of our Heavenly Father it is that very opposition, that very challenging trials, that opens up visions and avenues and doors and everything that brings to pass at Interpreter Foundation. And I think it was in one of the articles recently — or one of the videos that was posted — that Matthew Bowen said this is a miracle, a miracle upon miracles, and I couldn't agree more. And may we all rejoice in that miracle and how it affects and blesses our lives. . . .

Dan, you wrote and — I was on the Board of Trustees when a lot of these things percolated and ultimately led to Elder Holland coming down to the Maxwell Institute in 2018 and I think it was November of that year. We had had many discussions, as he said. I think he even referred to them up
there.
Gay relates an experience during his mission in which he read a tract from the Jehovah's Witnesses contending that the Book of Mormon was false because it contained an ending to the Lord's Prayer not found in certain manuscripts. Not knowing an answer to that issue, Gay decided to write Hugh Nibley. Gay relates:
One week later I received a one-and-a-half page, single-spaced, type-written letter by Hugh Nibley answering that question.

What's my point in all that? He heard a voice that said: do this, answer him. What did that letter actually end up doing?

Well, after I finished Harvard, at some point I moved to Connecticut and was working on Wall Street. I was on the high council, on the New Haven Stake High Council, and there was a young man who was the executive secretary by the name of John Gee. And I'd listen to John talk about the trials and tribulations of getting a PhD in Egyptology, and all the wonderful job opportunities that weren't there. [laughter] And how the exciting thing that he's maybe being able to do was to go down and work in one of the museums in New York. And I thought of Nibley; he helped me with his gifts and talents, and I said, Well, you have gifts and talents, you need to help John.

And so we called BYU and we asked: if we funded John's first few years of faculty salary, would you allow him to come out and teach because he can change what's going on out there. That's how I met Noel Reynolds. Ultimately, it's what led me to watch that process to meet Dan, Alan Ashton, and we were talking about earlier in the councils that were put together. And we worked on the Book of Abraham. Alan was working on the Book of Mormon, and it began that whole process.
Mail delivery time between Provo and Spain must've have been a lot faster back in the early 1970s than today (speaking of Provo and Spain, movie clip time).

Returning to a news item from a few years ago, I am surprised that a revised edition of Professor Gee's Saving Faith has not been published. The first edition remains for sale on Amazon and FAIR, but Deseret Book does not carry it and the publisher, the Religious Studies Center, doesn't list it as a publication on its website.
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2022

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Important historical data there, Tom. Nibley’s bad scholarship leads to Gee’s bad defense of the Book of Abraham. One wealthy GA is the nexus perpetuating the nonsense.
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2022

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Kishkumen wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:01 pm
Important historical data there, Tom. Nibley’s bad scholarship leads to Gee’s bad defense of the Book of Abraham. One wealthy GA is the nexus perpetuating the nonsense.
Amen. I wonder whether Gee looked into becoming a BYU professor of ancient scripture.
“But if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it. None of your business whether it is right or wrong.” Heber C. Kimball, 8 Nov. 1857
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2022

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Doctor Scratch wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:14 am
You are a true legend, Shulem. If the stars were somehow to align so that you could debate Gee head-to-head, it would be epic. It will never happen, but in a just world, someone would find a way to get it done.

And I happily responded to your generous remarks in my behalf up in the Celestial Forum:

Here
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