A thread dedicated to A.I. debating the decline of Mormonism.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Dr. Moore,

Google's A.I. "Bard" will be available to the public soon. It appears that Google's Bard will have access to much more data than ChatGPT and it has been reported that Bard generated text and answers with such skill that a company engineer last year called it sentient.

It will be interesting to see how Google's A.I. compares to ChatGPT on various Mormon related topics.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/explaine ... 22099.html

[Dr Moore]

It is important to understand what GPT (generative pre-trained transformer) A.I. bots do.

They are not sentient. They do not have opinions.

They are trained to take a text prompt and then create a response that most closely matches, or scores, in relation to the prompt. This is done iteratively, not a one shot creation process. We don't see the process, just the outcome.

One upshot is, if you ask ChatGPT to tell you 3 reasons why you should join Mormonism, it will give you 3 reasons. If you ask it to tell you 3 reasons why you should not join Mormonism, it will give you 3 reasons. If you ask for its opinion on Mormonism, generally you should expect a somewhat balanced list of plusses and minuses, couched in some safety language.

If you ask ChatGPT why you should stop brushing your teeth, or remove your toenails, well that will trigger certain pre-trained protocols and the response won't be balanced anymore.

[Moksha]

This version of the Brigham Young Campus is based on the supposition that apologetics served as the weekly Family Home Evening Activity and everyone pledged to the John Gee explanation for the Book of Abraham.

[huckelberry]

Prompt: Write a short story about Mormons in the style or Ernest Hemmingway.

Eat your heart out, Bob Bobberson

The sun was setting on the small Mormon settlement in the Utah desert. Joseph and Mary sat on their porch, watching as the sky turned orange and pink. They had been married for 25 years and had raised a large family in this isolated community.

As they watched the sunset, they reflected on the challenges they had faced as Mormons in a world that often misunderstood and marginalized their beliefs. But they had always found strength in their faith and in each other.

Just as the last sliver of the sun disappeared behind the horizon, a figure emerged from the shadows. It was their son, John, who had left the settlement years ago to serve a mission for the LDS Church.

Tears of joy streamed down Mary's face as she ran to embrace her son. Joseph joined them, tears of pride in his eyes. They knew that it wouldn't be easy for John to readjust to life in the settlement, but they were grateful to have him home and to have the opportunity to share their faith with him once again.

As they stood there, a family reunited and strengthened by their shared belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ, Joseph knew that they would face whatever challenges came their way, together. The end.

We have a current thread about A.I. and its ability to discuss, or write. I made the observation that Sage's ability appears clearly superior to these efforts a few years back. I like Hemingway and felt the comparison highlighted the utter thinness of this piece of writing. Some time back a story by a human was posted referencing Hills like white Elephants, a story about the same length and complexity of this story. However the Hemingway story is dense with the associations of human feeling. It is subtle in its evocation. I did not think Sage could do that sort of thing and wondered what Sage might think. I remind myself that even though I like to keep my writing short as an intention I remain unable to create story substance like Hemingway.

If I remember correctly, Bob Bobberson was referencing the Hills like White Elephants story. The current thread is is spirit kingdom.

[MG 2.0]

Three prompts, one after the other, to get to the final response which is posted here.

1. Here is an A.I. production from a message board. I would like you to now make an alternate response as though you are a Christian apologist and also a well known scientist such as John Polkinghorne or Francis Collins. Around the same length as the original response from the previous A.I.
2. Same things as you just did but now plug in Mormonism as being the focus of the response.
3.Now, work in the fact that Mormonism's numbers have decreased along with the rest of Christianity.

Mormonism, Science, and the Challenge of Declining Membership

As a scientist and a committed member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I recognize that Mormonism, like much of Christianity, is currently experiencing a decline in membership and retention, particularly in North America and other historically strong regions. Recent reports indicate that 2024 saw the highest level of membership attrition on record for the Church, with a net loss of over 130,000 members, and retention rates for those born in the faith have dropped significantly over the past decade. The percentage of U.S. adults identifying as Mormon has also fallen from about 1.75% to 1.2% in the last fifteen years.

Faith and Science: A Complementary Approach

Despite these sobering statistics, I believe the core principles of Mormonism-its openness to ongoing revelation, its encouragement to seek truth "by study and also by faith," and its unique perspective on the relationship between God, humanity, and the cosmos-remain deeply relevant. From a scientific perspective, Mormonism’s view that God operates within natural laws and that the pursuit of knowledge is a divine mandate continues to inspire members to engage with both spiritual and scientific questions.

Understanding the Decline

The decline in membership is not unique to Mormonism; it mirrors broader trends across Christian denominations in the Western world. Factors such as cultural shifts, generational changes, and evolving social attitudes contribute to this pattern. For Latter-day Saints, additional challenges include lower retention of youth into adulthood and discrepancies between official membership rolls and self-identified active members, especially outside the U.S.

A Path Forward: Integration and Openness

As both a believer and a scientist, I see this moment not as a crisis of faith, but as an opportunity for reflection and renewal. Mormonism teaches that all truth, whether discovered through scientific inquiry or spiritual revelation, ultimately comes from God. This conviction encourages humility and a willingness to adapt, learn, and grow as new information emerges.

While membership numbers may fluctuate, the call to seek truth, serve others, and build community remains unchanged. The Church’s growth in regions like Africa demonstrates that the message still resonates powerfully in many parts of the world, even as it faces challenges elsewhere.

In summary, the current decline in numbers challenges Latter-day Saints to reaffirm their commitment to both faith and reason, to address genuine concerns with openness and compassion, and to continue the quest for truth in all its forms. This integrated approach-valuing both scientific discovery and spiritual insight-offers a hopeful path forward for Mormonism in a changing world.

Perplexity A.I.

You used Dyson so I figured I would continue in the scientific vein.

Regards,
MG

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Three prompts, one after the other, to get to the final response which is posted here.

1.Here is an A.I. production from a message board. I would like you to now make an alternate response as though you are a Christian apologist and also a well known scientist such as John Polkinghorne or Francis Collins. Around the same length as the original response from the previous A.I.

2. Same things as you just did but now plug in Mormonism as being the focus of the response.

3. Now, work in the fact that Mormonism's numbers have decreased along with the rest of Christianity.

Mormonism, Science, and the Challenge of Declining Membership

As a scientist and a committed member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I recognize that Mormonism, like much of Christianity, is currently experiencing a decline in membership and retention, particularly in North America and other historically strong regions.

Recent reports indicate that 2024 saw the highest level of membership attrition on record for the Church, with a net loss of over 130,000 members, and retention rates for those born in the faith have dropped significantly over the past decade. The percentage of U.S. adults identifying as Mormon has also fallen from about 1.75% to 1.2% in the last fifteen years

Faith and Science: A Complementary Approach

Despite these sobering statistics, I believe the core principles of Mormonism-its openness to ongoing revelation, its encouragement to seek truth "by study and also by faith," and its unique perspective on the relationship between God, humanity, and the cosmos-remain deeply relevant. From a scientific perspective, Mormonism’s view that God operates within natural laws and that the pursuit of knowledge is a divine mandate continues to inspire members to engage with both spiritual and scientific questions.

Understanding the Decline

The decline in membership is not unique to Mormonism; it mirrors broader trends across Christian denominations in the Western world. Factors such as cultural shifts, generational changes, and evolving social attitudes contribute to this pattern. For Latter-day Saints, additional challenges include lower retention of youth into adulthood and discrepancies between official membership rolls and self-identified active members, especially outside the U.S.

A Path Forward: Integration and Openness

As both a believer and a scientist, I see this moment not as a crisis of faith, but as an opportunity for reflection and renewal. Mormonism teaches that all truth, whether discovered through scientific inquiry or spiritual revelation, ultimately comes from God. This conviction encourages humility and a willingness to adapt, learn, and grow as new information emerges.

While membership numbers may fluctuate, the call to seek truth, serve others, and build community remains unchanged. The Church’s growth in regions like Africa demonstrates that the message still resonates powerfully in many parts of the world, even as it faces challenges elsewhere.

In summary, the current decline in numbers challenges Latter-day Saints to reaffirm their commitment to both faith and reason, to address genuine concerns with openness and compassion, and to continue the quest for truth in all its forms. This integrated approach-valuing both scientific discovery and spiritual insight-offers a hopeful path forward for Mormonism in a changing world.

Perplexity A.I.

You used Dyson so I figured I would continue in the scientific vein.

Regards,
MG

And continuing in the scientific vein for MG means using ChatGPT. Brilliant, MG. Brilliant.

[MG 2.0]

You used Dyson so I figured I would continue in the scientific vein.

Regards,
MG

And continuing in the scientific vein for MG means using ChatGPT. Brilliant, MG. Brilliant.

Umm...I thought this thread welcomed A.I. contributions.

You don't like what mine said?

Regards,
MG

[Everybody Wang Chung]

And continuing in the scientific vein for MG means using ChatGPT. Brilliant, MG. Brilliant.

Umm...I thought this thread welcomed A.I. contributions.

You don't like what mine said?

Regards,
MG

Never mind me, MG. I just think it's cute you believe that using ChatGPT is the same as "doing" science.

[MG 2.0]

Umm...I thought this thread welcomed A.I. contributions.

You don't like what mine said?

Regards,
MG

Never mind me, MG. I just think it's cute you believe that using ChatGPT is the same as "doing" science.

No. I was using A.I. to participate in the topic in the OP but from a perspective of looking at things from the scientific viewpoint. A.I. helps with that.

More information is always better than less.

Regards,
MG

[sock puppet]

Never mind me, MG. I just think it's cute you believe that using ChatGPT is the same as "doing" science.

No. I was using A.I. to participate in the topic in the OP but from a perspective of looking at things from the scientific viewpoint. A.I. helps with that.

More information is always better than less.

Regards,
MG

Dallin Oaks disagrees. He has preached as an apostle that some truths cause more harm than good. You silly apostate MG 2.0.