A real Mormon? How can you tell?

[Father Francis]

Glowing skin? Preposterous. Mormons are by no means of any stretch of the imagination the only ones who have glowing skin and bright, shiny, happy smiling faces in the world.

Agreed. One journal article from 2015 isn't proof of anything. Research has to be replicated with similar results to be validated. This was the only Mormon Glow article I found upon my admittedly short search. I doubt it's a thing. The question of "Mormon or not Mormon" itself seems like enough of a biased question that influenced the participants.

[drumdude]

The angry internet person clarified what his definition of Mormon imposter is:

It seems to me that somebody who publicly declares that there is probably no God, who is publicly agnostic as to even the mere historical existence of an actual Jesus of Nazareth, who publicly asserts that the concept of a redeeming divine atonement is nonsense (to choose just three illustrative items) may, arguably, not be a believer. And if that person has also been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (as, in fact, John Dehlin was in 2015) it seems pretty accurate to describe him as being (in 2016) a “purported Latter-day Saint.” Mr. Dehlin was no longer “a liberal member of the Church” in 2016. In fact, even calling him a “nominal Latter-day Saint” during that period simply wouldn’t have been accurate.

[dastardly stem]

The angry internet person clarified what his definition of Mormon imposter is:

It seems to me that somebody who publicly declares that there is probably no God, who is publicly agnostic as to even the mere historical existence of an actual Jesus of Nazareth, who publicly asserts that the concept of a redeeming divine atonement is nonsense (to choose just three illustrative items) may, arguably, not be a believer. And if that person has also been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (as, in fact, John Dehlin was in 2015) it seems pretty accurate to describe him as being (in 2016) a “purported Latter-day Saint.” Mr. Dehlin was no longer “a liberal member of the Church” in 2016. In fact, even calling him a “nominal Latter-day Saint” during that period simply wouldn’t have been accurate.

DCP often puts out irrational points. When he has a decent explanation of something I don't know that it's helpful to suggest he's being something other than reasonable. I'd say we encourage the old man. That's all very reasonable. Dehlin doesn't believe, publicly, and has been excommunicated without, apparently, any desire to be Mormon again. Good for him. That does mean he was and is a "purported Latter-day Saint" when speaking as a insider commenting on Mormonism and technically is not a nominal Latter-day Saint. His affiliation to whatever extent he claims it is cultural--he grew up and lived within the culture for a good portion of his life. Does Dehlin care about these comments from DCP? is that why we're making an issue of it? I really don't see the issue here.

[malkie]

The angry internet person clarified what his definition of Mormon imposter is:

DCP often puts out irrational points. When he has a decent explanation of something I don't know that it's helpful to suggest he's being something other than reasonable. I'd say we encourage the old man. That's all very reasonable. Dehlin doesn't believe, publicly, and has been excommunicated without, apparently, any desire to be Mormon again. Good for him. That does mean he was and is a "purported Latter-day Saint" when speaking as a insider commenting on Mormonism and technically is not a nominal Latter-day Saint. His affiliation to whatever extent he claims it is cultural--he grew up and lived within the culture for a good portion of his life. Does Dehlin care about these comments from DCP? is that why we're making an issue of it? I really don't see the issue here.

You're right in what you say, stem - but this thread is a spinoff of the Dehlin-specific one. I think Sock created it to address the wider issue of criteria for and detection of "real" Mormons.

[dastardly stem]

You're right in what you say, stem - but this thread is a spinoff of the Dehlin-specific one. I think Sock created it to address the wider issue of criteria for and detection of "real" Mormons.

Ahh..nice...mixing up threads. I'm good at that.

On this topic, did anyone else ever feel like a wolf in sheep's clothing while sitting in Church classes? I sure did. I was often on the verge of spouting off a ton of incendiary ideas, comments or questions but knew if I did I'd just reveal this unbelieving dude who was pretending or something. This wolf ready to devour testimony-filled people. I hated those years of not believing but still participating. I couldn't square what I was. Was I Mormon? Was I some believer who couldn't figure it out and just needed some tiny experience or miracle to turn the corner for me? I look back and wonder what I was thinking. I was such an odd fit and it seems everyone around me knew it...except me. I guess I would say things like, "this is my church...Its a big part of who I am, where I came from, those who I love. I need to make it workable for me and my kind so we're all here together enjoying each other." At some point I decided that was stupid. I simply didn't believe and didn't need to force anything so I dropped it all. At that point if I looked back I realized I could have ended it many times before and in a sense exited the criteria of being Mormon. But even afterward I've found myself say things like "yeah I'm Mormon" sometimes qualifying that with I don't believe or something.

My family and friends likely say or think things like "he'd not LDS anymore" and while sitting in their kids baptismal ceremony or attending something for them, I may be like, "yeah...but in a sense, I still am". I may even sing along with their songs or tell the speaker how I enjoyed what was said...but come on...I don't believe it. As it remains a part of my life, I guess I just accept something about it and enjoy what there is.

[drumdude]

You're right in what you say, stem - but this thread is a spinoff of the Dehlin-specific one. I think Sock created it to address the wider issue of criteria for and detection of "real" Mormons.

Ahh..nice...mixing up threads. I'm good at that.

On this topic, did anyone else ever feel like a wolf in sheep's clothing while sitting in Church classes? I sure did. I was often on the verge of spouting off a ton of incendiary ideas, comments or questions but knew if I did I'd just reveal this unbelieving dude who was pretending or something. This wolf ready to devour testimony-filled people. I hated those years of not believing but still participating. I couldn't square what I was. Was I Mormon? Was I some believer who couldn't figure it out and just needed some tiny experience or miracle to turn the corner for me? I look back and wonder what I was thinking. I was such an odd fit and it seems everyone around me knew it...except me. I guess I would say things like, "this is my church...Its a big part of who I am, where I came from, those who I love. I need to make it workable for me and my kind so we're all here together enjoying each other." At some point I decided that was stupid. I simply didn't believe and didn't need to force anything so I dropped it all. At that point if I looked back I realized I could have ended it many times before and in a sense exited the criteria of being Mormon. But even afterward I've found myself say things like "yeah I'm Mormon" sometimes qualifying that with I don't believe or something.

My family and friends likely say or think things like "he'd not LDS anymore" and while sitting in their kids baptismal ceremony or attending something for them, I may be like, "yeah...but in a sense, I still am". I may even sing along with their songs or tell the speaker how I enjoyed what was said...but come on...I don't believe it. As it remains a part of my life, I guess I just accept something about it and enjoy what there is.

It’s a shame. Judaism and Catholicism don’t have this problem. Because they’ve outgrown their fundamentalist beginnings.

Maybe in another 1,000 years you will be able to attend sacrament meeting and not take the sacrament without everyone thinking you’re an adulterer or masturbater.

[malkie]

You're right in what you say, stem - but this thread is a spinoff of the Dehlin-specific one. I think Sock created it to address the wider issue of criteria for and detection of "real" Mormons.

Ahh..nice...mixing up threads. I'm good at that.

On this topic, did anyone else ever feel like a wolf in sheep's clothing while sitting in Church classes? I sure did. I was often on the verge of spouting off a ton of incendiary ideas, comments or questions but knew if I did I'd just reveal this unbelieving dude who was pretending or something. This wolf ready to devour testimony-filled people. I hated those years of not believing but still participating. I couldn't square what I was. Was I Mormon? Was I some believer who couldn't figure it out and just needed some tiny experience or miracle to turn the corner for me? I look back and wonder what I was thinking. I was such an odd fit and it seems everyone around me knew it...except me. I guess I would say things like, "this is my church...Its a big part of who I am, where I came from, those who I love. I need to make it workable for me and my kind so we're all here together enjoying each other." At some point I decided that was stupid. I simply didn't believe and didn't need to force anything so I dropped it all. At that point if I looked back I realized I could have ended it many times before and in a sense exited the criteria of being Mormon. But even afterward I've found myself say things like "yeah I'm Mormon" sometimes qualifying that with I don't believe or something.

My family and friends likely say or think things like "he'd not LDS anymore" and while sitting in their kids baptismal ceremony or attending something for them, I may be like, "yeah...but in a sense, I still am". I may even sing along with their songs or tell the speaker how I enjoyed what was said...but come on...I don't believe it. As it remains a part of my life, I guess I just accept something about it and enjoy what there is.

I hear you.

As far as the "wolf" part goes, I would say that you exercised admirable restraint in order not to be the wolf. A real wolf would have made comments that were designed to cause doubts and strife while maintaining plausible deniability - In other words, maximum destruction for minimum effort and culpability.

It's tough when you are conspicuously omitted from baby-blessing circles, and are unable to attend your child's marriage, but that's life. I think you're right - enjoy what you can and avoid being bitter about what you cannot participate in.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

When we say anything bad about the leaders of the Church, whether true or false, we tend to impair their influence and their usefulness and are thus working against the Lord and his cause.

I think that’s it in a nutshell. I’ve never known one in real life jack Mormon or in real life inactive Mormon who was ever ex’d as long as they kept their traps shut. This is why I can’t quite figure out why Nemo is allowed to retain his membership; did he get the 2nd Anointing or something?

- Doc

[Xenophon]

On this topic, did anyone else ever feel like a wolf in sheep's clothing while sitting in Church classes? I sure did.

To malkie's point I don't think it is fair to classify you as a wolf in this scenario at all. The idea of being uncomfortable as the non-believer mixed with the crowd resonates deeply with me though. The worst for me was the period as I began what, in hindsight, would be the beginning of the end of my place in the church. I was attempting to reconcile my new found understanding of the Book of Mormon and early Mormon history and knew that I was no longer the same kind of member I used to be. I had several frank conversations with the bishop and at first I was asked to stay within my calling despite my reservations. I'm sure the bishop meant well and perhaps thought this would keep me engaged and my doubts would subside after a time but honestly it made the dissonance much worse. You can only attempt to press through a few lessons where you only nominally accept the party line before something will have to give.

My family and friends likely say or think things like "he'd not LDS anymore" and while sitting in their kids baptismal ceremony or attending something for them, I may be like, "yeah...but in a sense, I still am". I may even sing along with their songs or tell the speaker how I enjoyed what was said...but come on...I don't believe it. As it remains a part of my life, I guess I just accept something about it and enjoy what there is.

Emphasis mine.

I think this is still one of the hardest parts for my SO. She was born and raised in the church and even at this point has spent significantly more years in than out. She may no longer believe but to deny that it still is an intrinsic part of her makeup, a foundational aspect to her development, is just unfair. It is why I suspect all these conversations about "real" Mormon and denying the cultural aspect of one's membership can be so triggering... it can leave the person feeling like you are trying to deprive a core part of their being.

[Res Ipsa]

You're right in what you say, stem - but this thread is a spinoff of the Dehlin-specific one. I think Sock created it to address the wider issue of criteria for and detection of "real" Mormons.

Ahh..nice...mixing up threads. I'm good at that.

On this topic, did anyone else ever feel like a wolf in sheep's clothing while sitting in Church classes? I sure did. I was often on the verge of spouting off a ton of incendiary ideas, comments or questions but knew if I did I'd just reveal this unbelieving dude who was pretending or something. This wolf ready to devour testimony-filled people. I hated those years of not believing but still participating. I couldn't square what I was. Was I Mormon? Was I some believer who couldn't figure it out and just needed some tiny experience or miracle to turn the corner for me? I look back and wonder what I was thinking. I was such an odd fit and it seems everyone around me knew it...except me. I guess I would say things like, "this is my church...Its a big part of who I am, where I came from, those who I love. I need to make it workable for me and my kind so we're all here together enjoying each other." At some point I decided that was stupid. I simply didn't believe and didn't need to force anything so I dropped it all. At that point if I looked back I realized I could have ended it many times before and in a sense exited the criteria of being Mormon. But even afterward I've found myself say things like "yeah I'm Mormon" sometimes qualifying that with I don't believe or something.

My family and friends likely say or think things like "he'd not LDS anymore" and while sitting in their kids baptismal ceremony or attending something for them, I may be like, "yeah...but in a sense, I still am". I may even sing along with their songs or tell the speaker how I enjoyed what was said...but come on...I don't believe it. As it remains a part of my life, I guess I just accept something about it and enjoy what there is.

I don't recall ever feeling like a wolf in sheep's clothing -- just a growing feeling that I was a fraud.