Translation of the Book of Mormon: book by James Lucas and Jonathan Neville argues against church admission of seer stone

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malkie
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Translation of the Book of Mormon: book by James Lucas and Jonathan Neville argues against church admission of seer stone

Post by malkie »

SLTrib wrote: In a forthcoming book, titled “By Means of the Urim and Thummim: Restoring Translation to the Restoration,” authors James Lucas and Jonathan Neville argue that the evidence for the seer stone is “inconsistent and unreliable.” Instead, they believe the traditional theory that Smith used “interpreters” called the urim and thummim, which the first Latter-day Saint prophet described as “two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breastplate.”
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2023/01 ... -use-seer/

[the Related Stories link to photos of the seer stone after the story doesn't work for me. This link does:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-worl ... eph-smith/ ]

However:
Gospel Topics Essay wrote: Apparently for convenience, Joseph often translated with the single seer stone rather than the two stones bound together to form the interpreters. These two instruments—the interpreters and the seer stone—were apparently interchangeable and worked in much the same way such that, in the course of time, Joseph Smith and his associates often used the term “Urim and Thummim” to refer to the single stone as well as the interpreters.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

So, after the church eventually admitted that Joseph Smith used his "scrying" seer stone to translate parts of the Book of Mormon, it seems that Lucas & Neville are suggesting that that is not correct.
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Dr Exiled
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Re: Translation of the Book of Mormon: book by James Lucas and Jonathan Neville argues against church admission of seer

Post by Dr Exiled »

They long for the good ole days when the fantasy narrative ruled. What next, Joseph Smith didn't practice polygamy?

Please church, tell me a pretty story so I can sleep well tonight.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
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Re: Translation of the Book of Mormon: book by James Lucas and Jonathan Neville argues against church admission of seer

Post by drumdude »

Also, Brigham Young had Joseph Smith murdered in Carthage jail by jailmate John Taylor.
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Re: Translation of the Book of Mormon: book by James Lucas and Jonathan Neville argues against church admission of seer

Post by BeNotDeceived »

When referencing the Book of Mormon, the word 'translation' needs to be done away with and replaced with 'created' or 'fabricated'. :D
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Re: Translation of the Book of Mormon: book by James Lucas and Jonathan Neville argues against church admission of seer

Post by Kishkumen »

drumdude wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:31 pm
Also, Brigham Young had Joseph Smith murdered in Carthage jail by jailmate John Taylor.
Love it. So wacky.
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Re: Translation of the Book of Mormon: book by James Lucas and Jonathan Neville argues against church admission of seer

Post by Fence Sitter »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:13 am
drumdude wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:31 pm
Also, Brigham Young had Joseph Smith murdered in Carthage jail by jailmate John Taylor.
Love it. So wacky.
You can't explain how Taylor survived so it must be true.
Isn't that how apologetics work?
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Re: Translation of the Book of Mormon: book by James Lucas and Jonathan Neville argues against church admission of seer

Post by Kishkumen »

Fence Sitter wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:17 am
You can't explain how Taylor survived so it must be true.
Isn't that how apologetics work?
Well, if I want it to be true it must be true, which is the way human beings work generally.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Translation of the Book of Mormon: book by James Lucas and Jonathan Neville argues against church admission of seer

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Lately, the 'brethren' have been telling members who have doubts to just have faith and believe, you know, like if you believe Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are all real, it will be so! :lol:
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Re: Translation of the Book of Mormon: book by James Lucas and Jonathan Neville argues against church admission of seer

Post by Rivendale »

BeNotDeceived wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:21 pm
Lately, the 'brethren' have been telling members who have doubts to just have faith and believe, you know, like if you believe Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are all real, it will be so! :lol:
Bednar was asked something similar. He said the difference between Santa and the church is the church is true. Then when asked that if a Mormon and another non Mormon used the same epistemology to arrive at two different religious conclusions how do you decide who is right? He then said the Mormon is because we have the keys. Then he said he had to go.......
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