New Mormon Doctrine - the church is identical to the Savior

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Rivendale
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Re: New Mormon Doctrine - the church is identical to the Savior

Post by Rivendale »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:29 am
Rivendale wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:30 pm
Jesus could clear all this up in 5 minutes.
He did. In the sacred grove.

This was an awesome talk. I appreciate the link.

A scripture was referred to.

Helaman 5:12

Worth reading again.

Listened to the talk from beginning to end. How many others here did? Context makes all the difference. I’ve said that many a time. And it’s true.

Regards,
MG
I often wonder what makes a piece of ground sacred. The carnage of bacteria in the regolith as Joseph received his alleged encounter. I think that explains why they levitated and didn't dare step on the foliage.
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Re: New Mormon Doctrine - the church is identical to the Savior

Post by MG 2.0 »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:56 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:40 am
What do you think this scripture is saying?
For one thing, it is a load of codswallop. For surely the Lord God does lots of things without revealing a damn thing to his servants the prophets.
I’m sure He does.

Regards,
MG
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Kishkumen
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Re: New Mormon Doctrine - the church is identical to the Savior

Post by Kishkumen »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:16 am
Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:56 am


For one thing, it is a load of codswallop. For surely the Lord God does lots of things without revealing a damn thing to his servants the prophets.
I’m sure He does.
So you agree with me? Or you really do take this literally as you suggested above?

I mean, what part of it is to be taken literally and which part figuratively?
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: New Mormon Doctrine - the church is identical to the Savior

Post by MG 2.0 »

Rivendale wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:15 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:29 am


He did. In the sacred grove.

This was an awesome talk. I appreciate the link.

A scripture was referred to.

Helaman 5:12

Worth reading again.

Listened to the talk from beginning to end. How many others here did? Context makes all the difference. I’ve said that many a time. And it’s true.

Regards,
MG
I often wonder what makes a piece of ground sacred. The carnage of bacteria in the regolith as Joseph received his alleged encounter. I think that explains why they levitated and didn't dare step on the foliage.
I guess you can think what you want about the reasons/ways and means for otherworldly beings ‘floating in the air’, so to speak. What makes that area of the world sacred to members of the church is the belief that Heavenly Beings appeared to a young boy prophet and restored lost truths, etc.

I doubt the bacteria in the soil and microbes in the air had any comprehension of the Creator being in the neighborhood.

Joseph had a difficult time comprehending what was happening as it turned out.

Regards,
MG
Last edited by MG 2.0 on Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Mormon Doctrine - the church is identical to the Savior

Post by MG 2.0 »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:17 am
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:16 am


I’m sure He does.
So you agree with me? Or you really do take this literally as you suggested above?

I mean, what part of it is to be taken literally and which part figuratively?
I don’t literally equate human beings as being on equal footing with God. I am completely open to the idea, however, that when the Creator God(s) have something of earth shattering importance to reveal to the whole world (even though it takes a bit of time, effort, and work to get the word out and get things up and running), they will accomplish this particular task through chosen vessels that we call ‘prophets’.

I do agree with you that God spends most of His time doing other stuff with no need to involve prophets per se.

Regards,
MG
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Re: New Mormon Doctrine - the church is identical to the Savior

Post by Kishkumen »

I can respect that you choose to interpret this Bible passage in a way that is consistent with your LDS beliefs. I just don’t see why anyone should take this as the one correct way to read the verse and thus binding on them in the way you see it as binding on you.

This verse is cherry-picked—my characterization—to support the prophetic authority of LDS leaders.

I guess I just need to come to terms with the fact that I simply don’t regard these texts or read them in the way most Christians and Mormons do.

The Bible is a collection of Jewish literature, mostly written between 500 BC and 150 CE. What the author of Amos or 1 Corinthians feels or believes about something just doesn’t move me to the degree that I feel in awe of it or bound to run my life by it just because it appears in that collection.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: New Mormon Doctrine - the church is identical to the Savior

Post by MG 2.0 »

Kishkumen wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:55 am
I can respect that you choose to interpret this Bible passage in a way that is consistent with your LDS beliefs. I just don’t see why anyone should take this as the one correct way to read the verse and thus binding on them in the way you see it as binding on you.

This verse is cherry-picked—my characterization—to support the prophetic authority of LDS leaders.

I guess I just need to come to terms with the fact that I simply don’t regard these texts or read them in the way most Christians and Mormons do.

The Bible is a collection of Jewish literature, mostly written between 500 BC and 150 CE. What the author of Amos or 1 Corinthians feels or believes about something just doesn’t move me to the degree that I feel in awe of it or bound to run my life by it just because it appears in that collection.
Fair enough.

Regards,
MG
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Re: New Mormon Doctrine - the church is identical to the Savior

Post by MG 2.0 »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:37 am
malkie wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:51 pm
Is this not a valid example of taking the Lord's name in vain?
After now having listened to the complete talk do, assuming you did, do you still hold to this position? If so, can you quote, in context, what was said that causes you to make this assertion and ask this question?

This is strong language. You should be able to back it up.

Regards,
MG
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Re: New Mormon Doctrine - the church is identical to the Savior

Post by Marcus »

Chap wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:49 pm
Failed Prophecy wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:09 am
Meh. He says something close, but the meme overplays the emphasis. Timestamp 19:18 here:

https://youtu.be/Zm2EMhPAoSI

It's also clear he means for it to provide a hypothetical perspective. That's way different than the headline the meme asserts.
Well, based on what he said (and I've just listened to it) I think we can quite fairly say that he is suggesting to his audience they should take the teachings and policy of the CoJCoLDS as being in effect identical to the teachings and policy of Jesus Christ, and accordingly refrain from expressing criticism or opposition to either.

After making those statements he then moved on to tell the story of the biblical Uzzah, who was struck down by God for steadying the Ark of the Covenant when it seemed in danger of falling from the carrying poles used by the priests who were carrying the Ark in procession. Hence, by analogy, he suggests that members of the CoJCoLDS should leave the development of teaching and policy to the small group of supposedly divinely appointed men whom alone God has allegedly authorised to deal with such matters.
Yes. And the transcript of the section from the timestamp referred to above does not seem hypothetical, at all.
I occasionally meet people that feel it is their absolute duty to point out what they see as shortcomings or failings of the Lord's Church
they feel that they are loyal to the Savior but opposed to certain teachings of his church
president Allen H Oaks has addressed this

some who use personal wisdom reasoning
or wisdom to resist prophetic Direction give themselves a label borrowed from elected bodies the loyal opposition

however appropriate for a democracy there is no warrant for this concept in the government of God's kingdom where
questions are honored but opposition is not as I visit with members across the
19:21
church I sometimes hear things like I don't support the church's policy on and
19:26
then you fill in the blank or I don't agree with the way the church does this or that

could I suggest an alternative approach substitute the word savior
or Lord or Jesus Christ in place of the church
as in I don't support the savior's policy on you fill in the blank or I
don't agree with the way Jesus Christ does this or that for me personally that seems to put a
very different perspective on things...
[bolding added, transcript from youtube link]
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