Scott Gordon Attacks Tyler Livingston Over CES Letter

[Bret Ripley]

Say, I don't suppose you have considered trying your hand at being a professional Prophet?

Actually, yes.

Well, if you decide to pull the trigger you can count me in. I am curious about what sorts of prophetic services would be on offer: Investment counselling? 24-hour notarial services? Will you validate parking?

[sock puppet]

The problem with the CES letter isn't that there are responses to the issues it raises, it's that those issues are new for a lot of people who have spent their entire lives in the church following leadership's advice to read only faith promoting material. How can a member be aware of responses to issues they have never seen before? My sister along with her husband and a couple of their kids recently announced they were leaving the church and that the CES letter had been instrumental in the beginnings of their exit. If the church had been more open about all of this stuff, running into the CES letter wouldn't be a big deal, in fact, the CES letter would probably not exist. FAIR can be angry about people leaving due to the CES letter without checking their site for responses, but the church itself has discouraged members from going looking anywhere but official sources which FAIR is not.

Accessible. That is what makes the CES Letter so effective in causing such a wide swath of LDS demographics that have read it to be doubting. It's not sophisticate or urbane. It is simple, direct and understandable for most anyone reading it.

FAIR's anger about and towards the CES Letter is because apologetics depends on sophistry. Apologetics try to make the reader's head spin until he or she loses focus and retreats then into thinking he or she cannot resolve the questions. It's over his or her head. Afterall, the apologists seem really intellectual with their big vocabularies and stringing together of nearly indecipherable phrases--and so if these smarties still believe, well, then so shall he or she. The doubting is dowsed a bit. Witness, DCP's "Mormon Scholars Testify" project. That is the entire uptake of it.

The CES Letter will continue to be effective in causing doubts because of its accessibility. The fact FAIR cannot refute such simplicity is damning of the product that FAIR is trying to defend. The lameness of Oaks and Ballard at their youth fireside, the two sarcastically joking with each other about how the LDS church has done a really "bad job" of hiding the problems with Mormon history, especially Oaks, while Ballard tries earnestly to deny any church deception is a testament to how shallow and narrow the Mormon narrative is now in the information age. The LDS product is becoming irrelevant. The CES Letter is a great tool for helping awake the typical Mormon.

[drumdude]

It's also very good at showing the sheer amount of problems that require responses. A ton of Mormons are under the misapprehension that Mormonism doesn't have a lot of problems, and the only reason it's still a small religion is because it's unknown.

It's very disgusting that the church is only growing in areas of the world where it is still unknown. Which haven't been educated about Mormonism yet. They're easy prey.

[Dr. Shades]

Actually, yes.

Well, if you decide to pull the trigger you can count me in.

Really? I must say, that's encouraging!

I am curious about what sorts of prophetic services would be on offer: Investment counselling? 24-hour notarial services? Will you validate parking?

I know you're joking, but I'll respond seriously:

Since March 2017, when I had a religious epiphany of sorts, I've been keeping my mind open to anything else that resonates with me regarding anything related to a higher purpose or "further light and knowledge," you might say. It's been my privilege to have heard such things that have rounded out my thinking to non-nebulousness. My "prophetic services," as you termed them, would be more along the lines of motivational speaking,* sharing my opinions but being very careful to emphasize that they are nothing more than that: Opinions, and every listener's mileage may vary. By no means am I a prophet in the conventional sense, nor have I been "called of God" to do or say anything. My purpose would be to share my beliefs in the, uh, belief that they will convince others to drop their crippling guilt and self-loathing and otherwise convince them of their inherent goodness and worth.

The problem is I'll need a venue and an audience.

*I've been encouraged to get into motivational speaking by a friend who regularly performs for crowds.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Since March 2017, when I had a religious epiphany of sorts, I've been keeping my mind open to anything else that resonates with me regarding anything related to a higher purpose or "further light and knowledge," you might say.

Shrooms?

- Doc

[Dr. Shades]

Shrooms?

- Doc

Nope. I've never done drugs.

[Moksha]

*I've been encouraged to get into motivational speaking by a friend who regularly performs for crowds.

Seems the easiest way to do that is with a YouTube vlog. Now that the Backyard Professor has such a vlog, he can stand out on a country road and talk away knowing that he has a perfect excuse if someone asks what he is doing. You eventually develop a following and might even be recognized at the grocery store.

Why not start on Mormon Stories or Mormonism Live?

[Moksha]

Since March 2017, when I had a religious epiphany of sorts, I've been keeping my mind open to anything else that resonates with me regarding anything related to a higher purpose or "further light and knowledge," you might say.

Shrooms?

- Doc

A large enough dab of wasabi on sushi certainly has a brief consciousness-altering property and more importantly, Perfume would approve.

[Dr. Shades]

Yes, there are better reasons for leaving the LDS Church than the CES Letter. I agree. The sad thing is that the CES Letter is more than enough for most people to leave, . . .

Why is that sad?

Given that the CES Letter is bad, . . .

What is bad about it?

[consiglieri]

I would love to have Shades on as a guest!!!