No Miracle in Writing a Book

[Kishkumen]

Bill Gates scored number 1 in his state's k-12 math assessment when he was in eighth grade. Is he a prophet? Oh that's right, his parents were educated. Well, many, many other parents were just as educated. Even if Joseph Smith's book was good and it was phenomenal that the son of poor farmers could write it, it's no more phenomenal than Bill Gates's achievement, and then going on to be a multi-billionaire. Smiths achievement would be a solid achievement by somebody extremely low on the totem pole, while Bill's accomplishment is extraordinary by somebody moderately high on the totem pole.

At the end of the day, Joe and Bill have something in common. The Windows operating system sucks just about as bad as the Book of Mormon, and in Joe's favor, people can leave Mormonism easier.

Yes! There are people who do remarkable things! No miracle required. The result can fit its time and place just right to take off. It happens.

[Shulem]

Lots of great work on those threads, Shulem! You need to do some videos with BYP!

That was very kind of you to say, Kish. Thank you!

Yeah, I've worked hard over the years in studying the Book of Mormon and love to find surprises in the details and how things tick. Smith was an amazing storyteller and had a mind like a steel trap. He was absolutely brilliant.

[malkie]

Another Book of Mormon bashing thread. It’s hard to let go of it completely isn’t it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mormon/comment ... e_book_of/

Regards,
MG

You missed the point. I have no problem with the Book of Mormon. I have a problem with Hales’ argument that writing a book is a miraculous process.

It isn’t.

So when you finish writing a book you don't exclaim, with a maniacal grin on your face: "I never thought I'd get it finished - it's a miracle!"?

[Dr Moore]

Millions of books have been written over the millennia. Where was the miracle?

Many books have been deemed miraculous despite the fact that no miracle is required to write one.

It’s interesting to look around at how Mormonism’s miracles are defended these days.

Something plainly not miraculous becomes a miracle when someone in authority claims it was one. But one of a kind gifts or achievements, or brilliant books, are hardly more than a distraction if no miracle is claimed. And then, anyone not Mormon who claims a miracle is either working for, or deceived by, Satan.

So in conclusion, the main criteria — indeed the only criteria — for a miracle in Mormonism is that a Mormon authority figure claims the miracle.

[Dr Exiled]

Millions of books have been written over the millennia. Where was the miracle?

Many books have been deemed miraculous despite the fact that no miracle is required to write one.

It’s interesting to look around at how Mormonism’s miracles are defended these days.

Something plainly not miraculous becomes a miracle when someone in authority claims it was one. But one of a kind gifts or achievements, or brilliant books, are hardly more than a distraction if no miracle is claimed. And then, anyone not Mormon who claims a miracle is either working for, or deceived by, Satan.

So in conclusion, the main criteria — indeed the only criteria — for a miracle in Mormonism is that a Mormon authority figure claims the miracle.

Notice how Joseph Smith conveniently gave the "power" to decide what was a supposed gift of the spirit and what wasn't to authority, e.g. the bishop: D&C 46:27

27 And unto the abishop of the church, and unto such as God shall appoint and ordain to watch over the church and to be elders unto the church, are to have it given unto them to bdiscern all those gifts lest there shall be any among you professing and yet be not of God.

Can't have the common, lowly members pushing authority aside by making up stuff. Soon authority won't have any more authority if that's allowed. So, it is a must that only those already in authority can make the magical miracle claims, regardless of how mundane and ordinary those claims are.

Growing up, my favorite miracle claim or false attribution claim was how technological advances were attributed to the restoration. Surely, the old codgers in the ward knew that we wouldn't have airplane travel or computers had Joseph Smith not looked into his magic rock so long ago.

[Philo Sofee]

I am watching a discussion go down on the indefatigable Brian Hales' Facebook page, and I really can't get over the fact that somehow writing a book has been elevated to the level of a miracle just because its author claimed the work was miraculous.

When in the history of the world was it ever necessary for a miracle to occur to write a book?

Millions of books have been written over the millennia. Where was the miracle?

Many books have been deemed miraculous despite the fact that no miracle is required to write one.

What makes one such claim so different from the others?

If Mohammed received the Koran from Gabriel, do LDS people accept that this is a miracle?

If the most educated philosophers of Mediterranean antiquity believed that Homer was divinely inspired and that all truth could be found by proper interpretation of his text, were they not right? They were, after all, probably smarter people than most LDS apologists!

Calling the Book of Mormon miraculous is nothing more or less than a personal subjective opinion. There is nothing to be measured, proved, or disproved in the entire argument. Some think the writing of the Book of Mormon is a miraculous feat.

OK.

I don't.

There we are.

That said, is writing a book akin to walking on water? Raising the dead? Healing without medicine?

No. So where is the miracle?

Another Book of Mormon bashing thread. It’s hard to let go of it completely isn’t it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mormon/comment ... e_book_of/

Regards,
MG

You don't, why should we? (my emphasis of MG's point...)

[Philo Sofee]

Lots of great work on those threads, Shulem! You need to do some videos with BYP!

That was very kind of you to say, Kish. Thank you!

Yeah, I've worked hard over the years in studying the Book of Mormon and love to find surprises in the details and how things tick. Smith was an amazing storyteller and had a mind like a steel trap. He was absolutely brilliant.

He's right you know, we need to do some videos. We don't have to do live, we can pre-record them...

[MG 2.0]

You don't, why should we?

When I popped back into this board it was no surprise to see another rehash/repeat of the same ol’ same ol’.

That was my point and my reference to the link I sent you to…if you reddit.com

It’s hard for those leaving the church or those having left the church to leave the Book of Mormon alone. You/they are ALWAYS fascinated with this book and are compelled to continue your revisits to the book and rehash the same arguments against it.

Over and over again, ad nauseam.

Regards,
MG

[Dr Exiled]

You don't, why should we?

When I popped back into this board it was no surprise to see another rehash/repeat of the same ol’ same ol’.

That was my point and my reference to the link I sent you to…if you reddit.com

It’s hard for those leaving the church or those having left the church to leave the Book of Mormon alone. You/they are ALWAYS fascinated with this book and are compelled to continue your revisits to the book and rehash the same arguments against it.

Over and over again, ad nauseam.

Regards,
MG

If the church shut down the missionary work and attempts at bringing back the supposed lost sheep, participation on sites like this would diminish significantly. Claiming over and over again how we supposedly aren't going to get the made up reward if we don't submit to church authority tends to wear on people and they need somewhere to vent. Stop with the pressure, stop with the nonsense and we'll leave it alone.

Just do this thought experiment. Try to put yourself into the place of a former scientologist or seventh day adventist, take a look at their stories:

https://people.com/celebrity/going-clea ... th-people/

https://www.reddit.com/r/exAdventist/

High demand religions leave the former adherents scarred and it isn't surprising that there are people who need years to overcome it, especially when their family continually pressures them to return to the unsupportable nonsense.

[Shulem]

He's right you know, we need to do some videos. We don't have to do live, we can pre-record them...

You have my every blessing to take any of my threads and expound on them -- there is plenty of material to make interesting podcasts. Just think, after your eyes are opened and you come to a realization that Delmarva was Lehi's destination as imagined by young Joseph when he was a young adult -- THEN, you can announce the story to the world and be famous for it. But just don't take too long because someone else might open their eyes, see the ball, and run with it!

But you, Philo Sofee have been called to the work and the field is white already to harvest. I have foreseen it in my crystal ball.