God’s grace

[msnobody]

As an aside from the Daniel McClellan thread I wanted to ask of those who have a belief in the existence of God, if anyone would like to share, their personal on view of God’s grace.

My personal view probably does fall in line with the Apostle Paul’s view, but it is God’s grace and not Paul who owns or dispenses that grace.

[Fence Sitter]

I hope you don't mind a counter-question from one who does not think there is a God. I don't know if He/She/It does exist or not, but I see no evidence of a God who seems interested in what happens here on this planet, hence my question.

Why do you think a God who can create the universe is interested in a particular species that has only been around for a blink of an eye on this speck of dust we call earth?

Apologies in advance if I have made assumptions in my question with which you do not agree.

Thanks.

[Physics Guy]

msnobody will have her own answer to that, but I wanted to post in her thread and it seems weird to ignore the question. So here is my answer, then my view on God's grace.

If I had to be aware of the whole universe, I definitely wouldn't be able to spare any thought for any one galaxy, let alone for any one conscious mortal on any one planet at any one time. The God imagined by the monotheistic religions, however, has a lot more attention than I do. God is supposed to be more aware of each one of us than we are of ourselves. As the Quran puts it, God is closer to you than your neck vein.

The theory of God is not a theory of a human-like mind that somehow has cosmic power. So the way I see this thread, if you're not interested in that theory of God, then this will be a dull thread, but if you're willing to entertain the idea for the sake of argument, then it's part of the premise of a thread about the grace of God, that God cares about us.

My idea of Grace is that God is kind of like an author whose characters have gotten out of control. The author can't just tear up the draft and re-write the characters properly, because it's too late now. This is who the characters are. It's not an option to banish the real characters to limbo forever and write a fake story about knock-off Stepford characters under the real characters' names. The only option is to abandon the perfect story that the author had in mind to write, and make the uglier story work, because it has the real characters.

[huckelberry]

Physics Guys makes a pretty solid foundational observation I think.

I have been puzzled by proposals that God would not be concerned with us due to our small size. Am I to imagine Gods fascinations to be focused upon space with the patterns of different radiations crossing through it. That is where all of the size is. Or the functions of stars where the multitude is. Perhaps more material for interest with the stars and rocky interstellar debris but I have trouble imagining a creator limiting interest to these due to their relative large scale.

[msnobody]

I hope you don't mind a counter-question from one who does not think there is a God. I don't know if He/She/It does exist or not, but I see no evidence of a God who seems interested in what happens here on this planet, hence my question.

Why do you think a God who can create the universe is interested in a particular species that has only been around for a blink of an eye on this speck of dust we call earth?

Apologies in advance if I have made assumptions in my question with which you do not agree.

Than

I don’t mind a counter question. I kind of wanted to sit back and see what others who believe there is a God think about God’s grace. I didn’t want to particularly go down the road of debating God’s existence. Sometimes after a thread runs it’s initial purpose, however, sometimes there is value in going in an unintended direction. Also, I always appreciate questions that make me think and/or rethink about my current position on a topic.


You asked, “ Why do you think a God who can create the universe is interested in a particular species that has only been around for a blink of an eye on this speck of dust we call earth?”

I think He created the universe with having in mind creating humankind, along with the rest of his creation. I think He created us to have a relationship with Him, not because He needed us, but because it pleased Him to do so. I think He in interested in all His creation. I suppose, I think this based on His revelation of Himself.

[Moksha]

God's grace is a fun concept and I hope we can all receive it, freely offered, with no strings attached.

[msnobody]

I hope you don't mind a counter-question from one who does not think there is a God. I don't know if He/She/It does exist or not, but I see no evidence of a God who seems interested in what happens here on this planet, hence my question.

Why do you think a God who can create the universe is interested in a particular species that has only been around for a blink of an eye on this speck of dust we call earth?

Apologies in advance if I have made assumptions in my question with which you do not agree.

Thanks.

I’m not seeking to be understood, but instead seeking to understand.

[Kishkumen]

The theory of God is not a theory of a human-like mind that somehow has cosmic power. So the way I see this thread, if you're not interested in that theory of God, then this will be a dull thread, but if you're willing to entertain the idea for the sake of argument, then it's part of the premise of a thread about the grace of God, that God cares about us.

My idea of Grace is that God is kind of like an author whose characters have gotten out of control. The author can't just tear up the draft and re-write the characters properly, because it's too late now. This is who the characters are. It's not an option to banish the real characters to limbo forever and write a fake story about knock-off Stepford characters under the real characters' names. The only option is to abandon the perfect story that the author had in mind to write, and make the uglier story work, because it has the real characters.

I really like the first sentence of this quote. God does not or is not a human-like mind that has cosmic power. It is what comes after—this metaphor of the author with characters who have gotten out of control—that doesn’t work for me, as it is just another human metaphor for something that is beyond our human mental capacity. I guess I am just more apophatic in my theological sensibilities.

[Dr. Shades]

I believe "grace" when it comes to God is akin to when a regular human walks past an ant hill and DOESN'T kick it to smithereens: Sure, he could condemn us or damn us with impunity, but refrains because it would be immoral to do so.

[Physics Guy]

[T]his metaphor of the author with characters who have gotten out of control ... is just another human metaphor for something that is beyond our human mental capacity.

Yeah, that's all it is. I wish I had something better, but I don't.

I've been writing a science fiction novel for a few years now, just as a hobby in spare time. The highest I'm aiming is for the kind of competent escapism that has often helped me relax; I don't see any indication that I've missed my calling and should have been writing great novels. I can only wish that my characters were so vivid that they got out of control. I've still had to make a lot of choices, though, about keeping in and cutting out.

In principle I have no limitations at all. I can start a new page and write anything. The goal of writing fiction, though, is to make something that seems real, at least with enough good will from a reader. If I succeed, people should finish the book with the feeling that there were really only a few things in the story that could ever have gone differently, that most of what happened was what had to happen, given who these people were, and their circumstances. The closer I get to that goal, the less freedom I seem to have to change things arbitrarily.

I can make anything happen in my story, but I can't just make anything work. I'm omnipotent, but my task is a meta-task that challenges even omnipotence.

My omnipotence as a human author may in some ways be total, but it's still far short of how divine omnipotence is supposed to be. My imagination is limited, and so is my time. There are changes I can't make simply because if I change something so big at this point then this book will never get finished. So my impression of how omnipotence can be limited is really only based on human limitations. And my task of creating a fictional world is anyway far short of creating a real world.

I still think it may work as a parable for something my brain will never be able to grasp.