In I Nephi Chapter 19:23-24 Nephi is teaching his brothers and he asks them to liken the scriptures unto themselves. What he was really saying is that the scriptures that they had access to were describing the covenant people of the Lord and their relationship to Him through the Abrahamic Covenant. Thus the scriptures were directly applicable to them as they were also of the House of Israel. We can then make that same application to our own lives as covenant people of the Lord. We also can seek the promised blessings of Abraham. I hadn’t directly considered that this may have been what Nephi was referring to when he asked his brothers (and us) to liken the scriptures unto ourselves.
These are my own thoughts and extrapolations from my reading, not a direct quote this time around.
umm, no. You’ve been lulled into complacency by Peterson’s plagiarism. What you’ve stated above is not your own thoughts and extrapolations, but rather what Peterson would describe pompously as “paraphrastic notes.” Defined by the rest of the world, including byu, as mosaic plagiarism.
Here’s Muhlestein’s original:
…In 1 Nephi 19:23, Nephi tells us that he tried to help his brothers by likening the scriptures to themselves…. in the preceding verses Nephi had been talking about the promises to Israel. In the following verse he shares what he did to entreat them to liken the scriptures to themselves, explaining, “I spake unto them, saying: Hear ye the words of the prophet, ye who are a remnant of the house of Israel, …and liken them unto yourselves” (1 Nephi 19:24).
Thus we can see that what Nephi was really saying was that the scriptures were about the covenant people; Laman and Lemuel were covenant people, therefore they should have directly applied scriptures about the covenant and covenant people to themselves. This is as true for us as it was for them. When we recognize the covenantal references and realize that we are part of that same covenant, then the scriptures speak to our lives and situations in a much more direct and powerful way….
there’s nothing wrong with quoting someone’s work, and it’s much preferable to paraphrastic-Peterson-plagiarism. Just stick with normal quoting, and give credit where credit is due!
But, please, keep going. There is 20% more of the free sample left after this section.
Thank you, Marcus. This needs to be recognized for its beauty.
We also can seek the promised blessings of Abraham. I hadn’t directly considered that this may have been what Nephi was referring to when he asked his brothers (and us) to liken the scriptures unto ourselves.
Had you not read Muhlestein's book, would you have failed to seek the promised blessings of Abraham?
I don’t know that I would be doing anything differently, boots on the ground. What I do think, however, is that by gaining additional understanding and reinforcement in regards to an important doctrine such as covenants I am better able to have this doctrine settle into my soul, so to speak. As I observe those around me I can see that there are those that keep their covenants and those that don’t. Whether or not that might partially be a result of lack of understanding and/or those doctrines failing to settle into their soul is a matter to consider. But there are so many competing philosophies and worldly distractions that can pull one away from the covenants that have been made with God I think that reinforcement and additional light and knowledge can act as a bulwark against losing one’s connection with God and the Savior.
Thus, the importance of books such as this. Despite the criticisms focused on me and the way I’m presenting information from the book combined with my own impressions/thoughts/emphasis…rather than with the contents and teachings found in the book…I think there is much to be gained through continued learning and reading of gospel principles and doctrines. Some here, I realize, will disagree and focus more on the messenger/methods rather than the concepts being presented.
Making covenants is a tool to achieve the 'fear of God' notion on which so much of Judeo-Christian religions hinge. The fear is that God will punish even more those who break covenants than those that do the same behavior but had not covenanted beforehand. It is a rationale for God to be more wrathful and vengeful than otherwise. The grist for religions to induce obedience (and payment of tithes and alms) is fear of God. Covenants just ratchet up that fear.
Covenants are made with God as an agreement in which we promise to follow His commandments and in turn receive promised blessings. God is a God of love. He presents opportunities for us to follow in His ways and become more like him. That is accomplished through covenant making.
I’m sorry that you feel as though you must fear God.
How about stop coming here to preach and instead come here to discuss on an equal level. Try it out. You might get better responses from the crowd. My guess is that most here are more intelligent than you are and perhaps if you are willing to learn, that can happen via actual discussion.
Just stop with the humble superiority already when you are the one who probably should be learning from everyone here.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I believe that you are just as able to share your thoughts and feelings/beliefs as I am. I read and assimilate what you may write. That doesn’t mean I will agree with your ‘preaching’ of one kind or another. It works both ways. I think we are both big boys and can take or leave what we hear and receive from each other.
There are some folks here that I have learned from. Others, not so much. Physics Guy is one that I really enjoy reading and learning from. I’ve learned from Kishkumen here and there along with canpakes, huckleberry, and a few others. But I believe I should also be extended the same right/privilege to exercise my ‘free speech’ and make my voice heard. You can, of course, take it or leave it. Or you can go as far as to try and erase/cancel my voice as some are prone to do through intimidation,etc.
MG, why would a person not think their role in covenant making was complete when partaking the sacrament?
The simple answer, from the perspective of a member of the church, is that God has additional promises and blessings to give us as we choose to walk in accordance with a higher and holier law. That probably sounds a bit presumptuous and/or ‘holier than thou’, but it’s not meant to be. The simple fact is that we all choose to walk according to the light that is within us. As members of the church we believe God has revealed additional light and knowledge. Any one of us is free to either accept or reject it. That doesn’t necessarily make one ‘better’ than another. But it does set one on a different path.
Baptism is the gateway ordinance/covenant that then allows us to be in a position to make additional covenants and participate in additional ordinances of salvation/exaltation.
Thanks for the question.
By the way, I enjoy reading your posts. They are thoughtful and I find that I am able to learn from you.
MG wrote: But there are so many competing philosophies and worldly distractions that can pull one away from the covenants that have been made with God I think that reinforcement and additional light and knowledge can act as a bulwark against losing one’s connection with God and the Savior
Had you not read Muhlestein's book to reinforce your bulwark, what philosophy would most likely distract you from your connection with the Savior?
If you don't mind me saying, ever since I've read your posts, you've struck me as someone with a near indestructible bulwark. I have a hard time imagining any idea -- of the ideas I know about of course -- being the slightest bit distracting to your basic beliefs in God and the Savior. And so, I really don't think you needed to read Muhlestein's book or really, any LDS publications. Although, feel free to do as you wish, but if you disagree with me, I would be interested in the ideas you find most threatening to the bulwark.
How about stop coming here to preach and instead come here to discuss on an equal level. Try it out. You might get better responses from the crowd. My guess is that most here are more intelligent than you are and perhaps if you are willing to learn, that can happen via actual discussion.
Just stop with the humble superiority already when you are the one who probably should be learning from everyone here.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I believe that you are just as able to share your thoughts and feelings/beliefs as I am. I read and assimilate what you may write. That doesn’t mean I will agree with your ‘preaching’ of one kind or another. It works both ways. I think we are both big boys and can take or leave what we hear and receive from each other.
There are some folks here that I have learned from. Others, not so much. Physics Guy is one that I really enjoy reading and learning from. I’ve learned from Kishkumen here and there along with canpakes, huckleberry, and a few others. But I believe I should also be extended the same right/privilege to exercise my ‘free speech’ and make my voice heard. You can, of course, take it or leave it. Or you can go as far as to try and erase/cancel my voice as some are prone to do through intimidation,etc.
Regards,
MG
Of course you have every right to say whatever you want here. That's not my point. You come here preaching, acting like the unbelievers here need a refresher course on making covenants with a made up being, and are surprised when people push back on that. The comment about Marcus being willing to learn from you was just more of the same misguided condescension. You are no better than anyone merely because of your religious beliefs or because you go to the temple to make your loyalty oaths. Why not come down off of the false mountain you believe you're on and join us mere mortals?
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I believe that you are just as able to share your thoughts and feelings/beliefs as I am. I read and assimilate what you may write. That doesn’t mean I will agree with your ‘preaching’ of one kind or another. It works both ways. I think we are both big boys and can take or leave what we hear and receive from each other.
There are some folks here that I have learned from. Others, not so much. Physics Guy is one that I really enjoy reading and learning from. I’ve learned from Kishkumen here and there along with canpakes, huckleberry, and a few others. But I believe I should also be extended the same right/privilege to exercise my ‘free speech’ and make my voice heard. You can, of course, take it or leave it. Or you can go as far as to try and erase/cancel my voice as some are prone to do through intimidation,etc.
Regards,
MG
Of course you have every right to say whatever you want here. That's not my point. You come here preaching, acting like the unbelievers here need a refresher course on making covenants with a made up being, and are surprised when people push back on that. The comment about Marcus being willing to learn from you was just more of the same misguided condescension. You are no better than anyone merely because of your religious beliefs or because you go to the temple to make your loyalty oaths. Why not come down off of the false mountain you believe you're on and join us mere mortals?
The thing is, Exile, is you are just as free to preach your version of intolerance and disdain for the leaders and doctrines of the LDS Church as I am to come here to support the leaders and doctrines of the LDS Church. Also, I’m not at all convinced that there are not those who don’t participate actively on the board that cannot benefit from the points of view expressed by BOTH of us.
To think that the minority view doesn’t have as much reason to be expressed as the majority view is undemocratic.
So you share what is your dislike and I will share my ‘like’. And we can both give reasons for our own points of view. Of COURSE we will BOTH think that the other is unreasonable and preachy.
