But when someone states that a creator God does exist, and presents little or no evidence, then a normal starting point is to say that, in the absence of convincing evidence, the statement is rejected - that is sensible, not silly.
That’s the thing though, malkie, there have been many discussions in many different venues as to the question of whether or not a creator God exists. There will be those that come down on either side of the arguments presented.
Reason and logic are used as evidence on both sides.
So I don’t see it as unreasonable to start out with an assumption that God exists.
People who believe in God have looked around and found themselves living in a world full of amazing life, life capable of thinking. People think that indicates a living source which is the basic idea of God. It is hardly an idea without evidence, life is plentiful. However it is an idea without proof. People try to tighten the matter into proof and it clearly comes up short. People can imagine alternatives.
MG, In the way covenants are important to Christian faith explanation and reflection of such would be expected to be there to read of in the founding documents. Reading these one finds multiple references and reflection on this.
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I have not been through the temple, my belief ended prior to my 18th bd. I do not know details but am aware people make specific promises. I have reservations about whether that is a good and proper thing to do.
I find myself not knowing how masonic rite and LDS rites compare in terms of covenants and promises. It is well known that they are formally related.
I know it might be asking a lot, but I would recommend that you pick up Muhlestein’s book, God Will Prevail. Many of your questions would be answered. This guy is an academic. He’s not writing a ‘fluff’ piece.
Regards,
MG
Mg, I have read a few books considering covenants, I am not sure I have any questions yet or left. Not that I know everything but I am aware of limits. I have a reading backlist which at present does not have any study of covenants on it. Is there some sort of reason i should reopen the subject? In past years I have read a few theology books by people who are not fluff.
As a matter of making a book recommendation it would be more inviting and conductive to conversation if you made a few summary statements about what ideas are presented in the book and why they may be of interest. He is academic, lots of writers are.
I am suffering from not having a question because I incline to think the subject a dead end or at least one too well trod to pursue further.
Last edited by huckelberry on Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:..This guy is an academic. He’s not writing a ‘fluff’ piece...
This Muehlstein?
“I start out with an assumption that the Book of Abraham and the Book of Mormon, and anything else that we get from the restored gospel, is true,” he said. “Therefore, any evidence I find, I will try to fit into that paradigm. … https://www.deseret.com/2014/8/12/20546 ... of-abraham
What makes Kerry Muhlestein’s opinion about covenants valid?
I suppose it’s the academic flavor he gives in providing an underlying and historical foundation for covenantal relationships between God and man within the Judaeo-Christian tradition and the direct parallels to the covenants made as members in the Lord’s church.
Regards,
MG
Why does your god need you to make a covenant rather than just judge you based on your life's conduct?
"I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal." Groucho Marx
"The truth has no defense against a fool determined to believe a lie." Mark Twain
The best lack all conviction, while the worst//Are full of passionate intensity." Yeats
I suppose it’s the academic flavor he gives in providing an underlying and historical foundation for covenantal relationships between God and man within the Judaeo-Christian tradition and the direct parallels to the covenants made as members in the Lord’s church.
Regards,
MG
Why does your god need you to make a covenant rather than just judge you based on your life's conduct?
My belief is that the covenants lead us in a direction of correct conduct worthy in the eyes of God. In other words, man’s ways are not always God’s ways. Mankind, along the way, has come up with machinations of conduct which have resulted in moral and ethical behavior that were/are harmful to full human flourishing and progress.
God’s covenants are a one size fits all methodology/practice for all of God’s children. With allowances made for individuality and creative endeavor.
God can and is willing to lead us in a direction that leads back to Him instead of somewhere else. This can only happen as we follow His law rather than the dictates/philosophies concocted in the minds of humans. Albeit, some of those ethical/moral practices/philosophies having some merit.
Covenants point us towards God.
Regards,
MG
Last edited by MG 2.0 on Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:..This guy is an academic. He’s not writing a ‘fluff’ piece...
This Muehlstein?
“I start out with an assumption that the Book of Abraham and the Book of Mormon, and anything else that we get from the restored gospel, is true,” he said. “Therefore, any evidence I find, I will try to fit into that paradigm. … https://www.deseret.com/2014/8/12/20546 ... of-abraham
No, that's not an academic.
One can be both a believer and an academic. It is important to note that in this particular area of investigation the research is pigeonholed into a limited area of study. His investigations into an area that you take issue with doesn’t necessarily need to impact the value of the research he’s done in regards to the importance and relevance of making covenants with God as performed/practiced throughout the ages.
An important fact to point out is that you don’t believe in a covenantal relationship with deity to begin with so the research will have little or no importance/meaning to you as an unbeliever.
One can be both a believer and an academic. It is important to note that in this particular area of investigation the research is pigeonholed into a limited area of study. His investigations into an area that you take issue with doesn’t necessarily need to impact the value of the research he’s done in regards to the importance and relevance of making covenants with God as performed/practiced throughout the ages...
so...not an academic, and definitely not in any of his religion-based works. His quote was pretty clear:
“I start out with an assumption that the Book of Abraham and the Book of Mormon, and anything else that we get from the restored gospel, is true,” he said. “Therefore, any evidence I find, I will try to fit into that paradigm. … https://www.deseret.com/2014/8/12/20546 ... of-abraham
