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Unfortunately the church has also made liars of members of the Q12 - well, "liars" is too strong a term, because I believe that the size of EPA's holdings was not shared with the apostles - probably above their paygrade.

Here is an apostle talking to the Vice-President of Zimbabwe, a country whose GDP was less than $18 billion. At the time the EPA's wealth in 13F-reportable securities alone was around twice that amount.

“We want to help in every way we can,” said Elder Andersen. “We are not a wealthy people but we are good people, and we share what we have,” he added.

https://news-zw.churchofjesuschrist.org ... es-support

How much of the EPA has been shared with Zimbabwe - or anyone else, for that matter? $0

malkie wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:27 am

Dr Exiled wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:19 am

...

Benign and altruistic when they lied on form 13F? When they unnecessarily created the LLC's scattered throughout the country? Really? I don't see how you can justify that belief, but, again, cognitive dissonance is a real phenomenon. If the sun is shining and you believe it isn't, that doesn't make the sun stop shining.

Well, to be more accurate, the LLCs were not actually scattered across the country - they were located in Utah.

It's just that on the 13Fs they represented that the LLCs were in different places. Just another little "trick" to obfuscate.

I took another look at the SEC order. The only state of formation identified is Delaware. That makes sense, as Delaware does not make the members of an LLC publicly available. If you want to hide the identity of the “owners” of an LLC, Delaware is your best friend.

The principle places of business were listed as being in other states, although the addresses in those states were just a drops. The scheme was set up so that there would be no contact with Utah.

malkie wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:27 am

Dr Exiled wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:19 am

...

Benign and altruistic when they lied on form 13F? When they unnecessarily created the LLC's scattered throughout the country? Really? I don't see how you can justify that belief, but, again, cognitive dissonance is a real phenomenon. If the sun is shining and you believe it isn't, that doesn't make the sun stop shining.

Well, to be more accurate, the LLCs were not actually scattered across the country - they were located in Utah.

It's just that on the 13Fs they represented that the LLCs were in different places. Just another little "trick" to obfuscate.

Thanks for the correction and thanks to Res Ipsa as well. We should be as accurate as possible in how the church misleads. The poor members that remain deserve nothing less.

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:54 am

malkie wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:27 am

Well, to be more accurate, the LLCs were not actually scattered across the country - they were located in Utah.

It's just that on the 13Fs they represented that the LLCs were in different places. Just another little "trick" to obfuscate.

I took another look at the SEC order. The only state of formation identified is Delaware. That makes sense, as Delaware does not make the members of an LLC publicly available. If you want to hide the identity of the “owners” of an LLC, Delaware is your best friend.

The principle places of business were listed as being in other states, although the addresses in those states were just a drops. The scheme was set up so that there would be no contact with Utah.

Ahhh, thanks - I need to upgrade my reading skills

malkie wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:28 am

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:54 am

I took another look at the SEC order. The only state of formation identified is Delaware. That makes sense, as Delaware does not make the members of an LLC publicly available. If you want to hide the identity of the “owners” of an LLC, Delaware is your best friend.

The principle places of business were listed as being in other states, although the addresses in those states were just a drops. The scheme was set up so that there would be no contact with Utah.

Ahhh, thanks - I need to upgrade my reading skills

It was buried in the order. The press coverage was very unclear. I had it wrong until I read the order.

Every person in the church who handles money is required to watch this video.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/too ... s?lang=eng

Go to the 3:55 mark for this quote.

RobertDHales wrote: When a person mishandles the Lord’s resources, he risks losing his place in the kingdom. He may jeopardize his own faith and even weaken the faith of generations to come.

mishandle: to deal with or manage wrongly or ignorantly.

Yup. Incurring a $5 million SEC fine counts as mishandling.

Three first presidencies, multiple presiding bishoprics. In jeopardy. Will absolutely weaken the faith of generations to come.

MG you seem to like Big Brother a lot. Any chance you have vague memories of hating rats?

Dr Moore wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 05, 2023 12:41 am

Every person in the church who handles money is required to watch this video.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/too ... s?lang=eng

Go to the 3:55 mark for this quote.

RobertDHales wrote: When a person mishandles the Lord’s resources, he risks losing his place in the kingdom. He may jeopardize his own faith and even weaken the faith of generations to come.

mishandle: to deal with or manage wrongly or ignorantly.

Yup. Incurring a $5 million SEC fine counts as mishandling.

Three first presidencies, multiple presiding bishoprics. In jeopardy. Will absolutely weaken the faith of generations to come.

We all know their only concern about mishandling money is someone stealing it from the Brethren.

I doubt that the idea of having the Church be run by three A.I. chatbots, which have been programmed to be honest, will gain much acceptance.

Moksha wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:24 pm

I doubt that the idea of having the Church be run by three A.I. chatbots, which have been programmed to be honest, will gain much acceptance.

Well it can't do as bas the last three First Presidencies for honesty in financial matters. It might even improve in truthful history and doctrine as a bonus.