Re: Toxicity....... You're Welcome

Rosebud · Post by **Rosebud** » Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:56 pm

FTR, I built a post-Mormon community that wasn't toxic. It had its toxic elements, definitely. But overall, it was put together enough that we had the support of people like the Bushmans. Clayton Christensen was considering keynoting when John began throwing one of his [many] behind-the-scenes temper tantrums and started tearing things down.

He didn't care about you. I did. He didn't care about the donors. I did. All he wanted was money in his pocket and a martyrdom/excommunication. Martyr stories are very powerful in Mormon and exMormon circles. Lucrative, too.

The organization I built and ran had a much more productive impact on the church. It would have gone far if the board had decided to fire John instead of me. Lots of things in the last decade would have gone differently and would have been better for exMormons.

It was my skilled leadership, not John's, that was influential in supporting the anti-mopologists on this board as they took on the Maxwell Institute back in the day. My posts belong on this board because I helped you and this is where a little of the action occurred during the heyday of my work. To believe that I don't belong here and this record doesn't belong here is to have your head buried in the sand. This board has always been the most fitting place for me to keep my record and collect the toxic responses that prove the sexism among John's followers during the time period. This has never been about you and I was never worried about or afraid of some toxic posters on a message board at the back of the internet. You've proved my points well as I created the record that did the job I needed it to do and that has opened the door for other women.

And thank you, also, to the many who are here who have supported me all along. A few kind words were much appreciated along my long and lonely journey.

To the toxic posters: you obviously don't believe in women... or believe them. Who among you would imagine that it was actually a woman who was a catalyst for some of your greatest successes? Again, it was my skilled work, not John's, that was influential in supporting you as you took on the mopologists in 2011 and 2012. Yes, my work: a woman's work. Women can actually be very capable people, even when we happen to be born Mormon. It should be pretty obvious by now that the capability to build something that isn't toxic didn't belong to John.

So.... you're welcome.

Goodbye.

Kishkumen · Post by **Kishkumen** » Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:08 pm

I wish you the best, Rosebud. I know you are a talented and strong person. At the same time, being human, you exercised some poor judgment and made some mistakes. We all do. Please continue to come here to share your talents, including your excellent writing skills.

I try to be supportive of a diverse community, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with everyone. I would also like to think people can have different opinions and still be in the same space online.

One day I hope I see you share your talents with us in a way that does not include John Dehlin. You don’t need John Dehlin or his memory. You are better off without both, in my opinion. I believe in you.

Shulem · Post by **Shulem** » Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:20 pm

Did you say "toxic"?

Baby, can't you see I'm calling?
A guy like you should wear a warning
It's dangerous, I'm falling
There's no escape, I can't wait
I need a hit, baby, give me it
You're dangerous, I'm loving it
Too high, can't come down
Losing my head, spinnin' 'round and 'round
Do you feel me now?
With a taste of your lips, I'm on a ride
You're toxic, I'm slippin' under
With a taste of a poison paradise
I'm addicted to you
Don't you know that you're toxic?
And I love what you do
Don't you know that you're toxic?
It's getting late to give you up
I took a sip from my devil's cup
Slowly, it's taking over me
Too high, can't come down
It's in the air and it's all around
Can you feel me now?
With a taste of your lips, I'm on a ride
You're toxic, I'm slippin' under
With a taste of a poison paradise
I'm addicted to you
Don't you know that you're toxic?
And I love what you do
Don't you know that you're toxic?
Don't you know that you're toxic?
Taste of your lips, I'm on a ride
You're toxic, I'm slippin' under
With a taste of a poison paradise
I'm addicted to you
Don't you know that you're toxic?
With a taste of your lips, I'm on a ride
You're toxic, I'm slippin' under (toxic)
With a taste of a poison paradise
I'm addicted to you
Don't you know that you're toxic?
Intoxicate me now, with your lovin' now
I think I'm ready now, I think I'm ready now
Intoxicate me now, with your lovin' now
I think I'm ready now

Doctor CamNC4Me · Post by **Doctor CamNC4Me** » Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:24 pm

If you built one before, you can again. A mechanic doesn’t forget how to repair a car, so if you’re as adept at building a post-Mormon non-toxic community then do it. You don’t need no man, sister! We support you, as much as we would support any ex-Mo; you have your niche to fill and along with the other 19 signatories to The Statement, you all can do it.

- Doc

Post by **Dr. Shades** » Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:47 pm

In what way did your leadership assist the anti-mopologists on this message board to take down the Maxwell Institute back in 2011 and 2012? It was my impression that everyone here acted on their own accord with no help whatsoever.

IHAQ · Post by **IHAQ** » Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:27 pm

Rosebud wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:56 pm
My posts belong on this board because I helped you and this is where a little of the action occurred during the heyday of my work.

This is a relatively new board. I suspect you're referring to a previous iteration called "Mormon Discussions".

Goodbye.

I think there's a principal about starting a thread and then immediately leaving. One shouldn't start a thread where one is unprepared to maintain a reasonable level of contribution.

IHAQ · Post by **IHAQ** » Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:31 pm

Dr. Shades wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:47 pm
In what way did your leadership assist the anti-mopologists on this message board to take down the Maxwell Institute back in 2011 and 2012? It was my impression that everyone here acted on their own accord with no help whatsoever.

Posters on Mormon Discussions took down the Maxwell Institute? The Maxwell Institute is alive and well as far as I know.

Alphus and Omegus · Post by **Alphus and Omegus** » Sat Feb 25, 2023 4:38 pm

I have consciously decided not to participate in any of these recent threads because I don't think that message boards are the appropriate venue for this. If you have an alternative vision for a community, you need to start first by creating your own place and then invite others to it.

It's fine if you want to criticize others but I think having your own place to do it is better so that people can also see what your specific positive vision is as well.

I'm not the owner so perhaps I'm mistaken, but this community isn't really trying to do much besides provide a place for people who find Mormonism to discuss it. And it certainly wasn't created to become a vehicle for attacking podcasters that probably the majority of readers don't even listen to.

Getting angry at a message board just seems like such a waste of time to me. If you don't like it here then go make your own blog or something. Or take to social media.

dastardly stem · Post by **dastardly stem** » Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:08 pm

Why thank you. I had no idea you were such a support.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:47 pm

Rosebud wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:56 pm
To the toxic posters: you obviously don't believe in women... or believe them. Who among you would imagine that it was actually a woman who was a catalyst for some of your greatest successes? Again, it was my skilled work, not John's, that was influential in supporting you as you took on the mopologists in 2011 and 2012. Yes, my work: a woman's work....

Nope. I'll say to you exactly what I say to DT: don't stereotype, and don't talk about women as though they are things.